Piñata by Leopoldo Gout Book Club

Hi, this is Christina and Carmen and this is another episode of Spooky Tells a book Club. Oh and Milo's here, Yes, Milo's behind Carman. If you're on watching on YouTube, you'll see Milo's head and his little ears just stood up. So cute. Anyway, Yeah, this is not a regular episode. It is a book Club episode. Book Club, book Club, book Club, book Club. We're holding our books and moving them up and down. Yeah, so our book Club episode on Binata. By and in case this is anyone's first book Club episode, this is not spoiler free. Only the initial summary. We give a spoiler free after that. After that we're gonna go through the entire plot. Yeah, you know how like there's movie recap, this is like a book recap. That's how we do our book Club episodes. We do a little short synopsis, like the one you read when you buy the book, the one actually in the back back of the book. We're gonna read that. Then we're going to do a recap of the book. We opine a little bit throughout the recap. Throughout the recap, we give our thoughts on certain parts. We read quotes that we really like. Yeah, at the end of the recap, we go through the discussion questions that were sent out to everyone, which actually nobody answered this time. But you know what, it's a busy time of year. You're right, you're right, and it's okay people, it's okay if you didn't, I know, people read it. Oh, it's okay if you don't answer any questions. Yeah, we just like reading them. But it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. Yeah, I love reading their answers. Yeah. But you know what I forgive everyone today at the time of recording, it's been a rough it's been a rough day. We won't get into it, but we are recording in the sixth Yeah, so once you hear the date, you'll know why. It's been a rough day for a lot of us, a lot of yeah, a lot of people. And that's why we're just gonna we're just getting together and talking about a book, you know. Yeah, because in times of turmoil, times of difficulties, we're just to keep telling our little ghost stories in these times, We're just going to keep telling our little ghost stories and reading our little horror books and just continuing on being little as spooky bitches. But the real life horror is every day. Yeah, and so we're just going to escape into our ghostly horrors. When I tell you I've been reading NonStop this whole year is because this whole year has been awful for me. But and you know, yesterday was just more awful on top of the already awfulness that I've been going through. And that's why I read almost sixty something books this year, and that's why I've watched so many shows The Wonking Dad eleven seasons of The Wonking Dead and now this Dixon is real. But also list leading to community, like there's no need to despair. You know, we have each other, we do Okay, yes, so you want to read the back of the book. Yeah, this is our only spoiler free section. We're reading the back of the book. The synopsis is over. Spoilers galore. Okay, they were worshiped by our ancestors. Now they're forgotten. Soon they'll make us remember it was supposed to be the perfect summer. Okay. Sorry. This whole time I was reading the book, I read Godman like in Spanish, but I never say my name is Spanish unless I'm talking in Spanish. That made me laugh. That is true. The whole time I was like what if this was actually Carmen? What if she No? I want to be this honestly. Okay, we'll get into it. We'll get it, It'll get it. Okay. Godman Sanchez is back in Mexico, supervising the renovation of an ancient abbey. Her daughters, Isle and Luna, too young to be left alone in New York, join her, and what Godman hopes is a chance for them to connect with their roots. Then an accident at the worksite unerts a stash of rare, centuries old artifacts. The disaster costs got Mean her job, cutting the family trip short, but something malevolent and unexplainable follows him home to New York, stalking the Sanchez family and heralding a coming catastrophe, and it may already be too late to escape what's been awakened. Dunt dun, dum dum, perfect right on key and from now on spoilers. Okay, Oh you know what, Okay, let me just read the nose of the Amazon, because it's different. It's a little bit different. Yeah, So a head full of Ghosts meets Hereditary in have you seen? Have you read a head full of Ghosts? I have not seen that I thought it was a book. Yeah, I know it is a book. I said, it's because The Hereditary is a movie. A headful of Ghosts is I kept seeing a head full of Ghosts meets Mexican Gothic, which, honestly, it's nothing like Mexican Gothic. It's nothing like either book, and I just wish they would just say something different. Yeah, it's it's like the other one is a possession story, and I guess that's then and involves a girl and and a family, So I guess in those ways, it's a nosense in that sense, nobody in the sense that Yeah. So, Carmen Sanchez is back in her home country of Mexico, overseeing the renovation of an ancient cathedral into a boutique hotel. Her teen daughters, isl and Luna are with her for the summer and left to fill their afternoons and supervised in a foreign city. The locals treat the sancha's a woman like outsiders, while Carmen's contractors openly define sabotage her work. After a disastrous accident at the consertion site, nearly interests Luna, Carmen's had enough. They're leaving back in New York, Luna beg exactly strange and only is notices the chilling changes that are happening to her younger sister. But it might be too late for the Sanchez family to escape what's been awakened. So some parts are different, parts are similar. I feel like that's not right. That's the reason. Not right. She doesn't leave because she has enough. She leaves, They take her off of the job. This is what Goodreads said, and they all notice the creepiness that she, like is said, is not the only one that I'm sooner than others? Yeah yeah, yeah. Some excuse it as something else, but like to they excuse it, but they notice it. Okay, let's fa to it. Let's get it into your recap. Yeah yeah, okay. So the book starts with the prologue. Said in the past, Oh my god, that prologue was amazing. It was. Yes, I had me hooked just from there, you know, immediately hooked. Yeah, yeah, I was. You know what it reminded me of, Sorry, should I finish before No? No, this is our book club. We do what we want. Go on. Well, it reminded me of doesn't the haunting Alejandra start off with the prologue that's similar like in the past. Yes, yes, that's what reminded me of Yeah, okay, now you can go ahead. That's okay. Yeah, again, amazing prologue. So as you read, you realize we're not in modern Mexico. We're at the fall of the Orhico today. In the book there or in the prologue, they're talking about how locals are dying from either the conquest or diseases that the Friars are immune to because they're bitches because they brought them. Yeah, exactly, precisely. Cemente and the Friar are forcing children to recite lave Maria the prayer. Then one of the friars tells an indigenous child that is the translator for the rest of them. I think it was a man. Oh, I thought it was another. They said just a translator, and I assumed there was a trial. I assume there was a man. So interesting, Yeah, okay, someone the translator. He the friar tells the translator, whoever breaks the piata gets a price. And I'm going to read this part from the book because it's too good. So where this is pat that tell them to strike it milkiades, that's the friar said to the interpreter, and whoever breaks it gets a price. The other friar sneaker like little fucking bitches. Sorry I edit that on. Amused by the child's realization of what he was being asked to do. Tell him it's a game shortly, the boy said, anxiously. The child turned to the clergyman, white eyed, and then turned back to the rest of the children, Not daring to look at the pot. He his teeth as his shoulders heaved and began to cry melgia. This pushed him toward the pot, trying to make him hold the stick. The interpreter follows, suit yelling and telling him, Oh, you know what, I think you're right, it is a man. Yeah. The interpreter follows, suit yelling and telling him, and I want to strike it. The children shrieked, I can't, I shouldn't. It's an offering. It can't just be spilled. The boy holding the stick repeated again and again. The interpreter translated. The friar slapped the boy's head and called another child older than the first, forcing the stick into his hands, hit it down it or I'll have you beaten dead right there, Melgialis said. The boy swung and connected with the pot, immediately dropping the stick, hoping that he had fulfilled the request. But the friar continued to shout and grab the stick from the ground, showing it back into the boy's hands, pressing firmly so he won't drop it again. And so he keeps hitting the pot. And this this isn't what the piatas were meant for. There's supposed to be a sacrifice, not to you know, break in this manner. I'm gonna skip ahead a little bit, okay, So when he does the final strike, the pinata, which is like a clay pot, it's not the pingata as we know today, but the pinata cracks and breaks and there's, like, let me read this, flesh entrails and a deep break in the syrup of coagulated blood poured from the shattered base of the pinata. The shrieks of children grew louder, watching and wailing in their hopelessness. Can you fucking imagine that you're breaking a piata? And literal, what are they putting in there? I thought that's what they put to like for their sacrifice or yeah, they're not, but they're not meant to be broken. So that's why, right, Yeah, but can you I just you're breaking a piata and yeah, this falls out. Yeah, it's horrifying. This is like the the whites are taking what they're supposed to be sacrificed and just doing whatever they want. Like they're like corrupting this ritual, this cultural like spiritual ritual. They're just fucking it up. Yeah, with no regard or care, like exactly. Yeah, And so the Friar Melkaddis he turned back to the group of kids and he tells them you'll find that God doesn't ask for blood and viscera, none of these barbaric offerings your ancestors gave. But then he turns around and he beats this kid to death. Horrible, and I wonder what is more barbaric? No, you know, it was so creepy too, Like he says before it's before he beats him up right, Yeah, he says, the Almighty only wants your soul. Yeah that's creepy. I'm sorry, that's yeah, that's it's horrifying. Yeah. So there's another young boy that refuses to break the next pot, and that's the boy that gets beat to death by Melkaddis and nobody stops him. Yeah. When the sister of this boy tries to stop them, the same friar tells her, don't worry, child, the dogs will eat him, so he will finally be of some use. He'll return to the arms of one of your horrid gods. Then we learn that this little girl, her name is kit Sally, which will come back. Yeah, and she's apparently quite the troublemaker want to tie her up and she manages to run and they are chasing her. Then the same friar goes back to his room at the abbey. When he walks into his room there, I'm reading this from the book. When he walks into his room at the abbey, he like, here's something and so he's like, hello, who's there? And this is from the book. A terrible pale face, skeletal and eye lists emerged from the shadow near skinless, what flesh and maintained, hung tattered and decaying from its visage like ribbons. The imagery Oh yeah, its body unrevealed. The face drew nearer to the fryar as its neck extended farther and farther. Sit back horrified, his breath catching in his throat, asking his God for protection. Just reminds me of the aparment. We always yes, no God here whatever say. Worst line ever, so screapy, I mean creepy, I come whatever, I come by scary and creepy and screepy. You know what, should we start saying that? No? No, no, no, no, I don't like it. I mean you could say it if you want. I don't know, Like screepy. Stop trying to make screepy happen. It's not gonna happen. And the Friar is pretty much killed by this entity in his room. I was so scared this, Like immediately you're like, what the hell? Yeah, that's the prologue. That's not even starts right off the bat, right off the bat, and then we get to chapter one. We meet Carmen and her two daughters. Eleven year old Luna, we meet the fam, Yes, the fam, sixteen year old Isel. They're in Tulancingo, is Ago, Mexico, far from their hometown of New York. Right away we learned they're there because of Carmen's work. El the sixteen year old Little Brady, six year old it's Mexico. She's such a you know what. It seems that they don't know Spanish either, right or do they? It seems I think they know it a little bit, like a tiny amount. Yeah, well, I think they know more Spanish. But she refuses to tea Spanish because he said, the younger one is communicating with all the merchants and stuff. Okay, so, okay, so they know Spanish just in pace. Maybe they're having a harder time because they speak way less Spanish, but no, they're You're right, because Luna is chatting with everyone. Yeah, okay, so she's just been sixteen and very bratty. I don't know happened. It happens, Yeah, it really does. So we learned that they're there because of you know, her work. You said, doesn't want to be there. Luna is having a great time learning, absorbing, like a little curious child that she I thought she was younger from the description. I guess that's part of her character, though she acts like a lot more naive than yeah, than her age. I guess. Yeah, very year olds are young children, but she gives off like eight year old vibes. I thought she was eighty if I if I hadn't if they hadn't said her age then and there, and I just went out the description of her and what she does throughout the book. I would have until she goes to middle school and you're like, what, yes, yeah, but then at that point we'll get into it. Yeah. So we learned their father isn't involved in their life, and that Alma Carmen's mother, their grandmother, usually watches them. But she's getting old. She's seventy now, and so she she still works, so she still up and go to Mexico either that too, and and it'd be hard for her to leave the daughters all summer with her mom alone, right right, Although to me it sounds doable because they're older, they're not. I think it was doable too. I think they could have stayed home because but I think part of Carmen, Yeah, part of Carmen really wanted them to want experience. Yeah. Yeah, So it was a lot of things mixed together. She wanted her mom to rest, she wanted to show them her the culture. Yeah, the motherland as they say, what is it in Spanish? Lad Patria? Yeah, and Luna Andell hated it. Yeah, she really did too. Is Sail is an older one, Luna, it's a younger one. Yes, I know, but I'm going to keep doing it. I know it. And Carmen is there because she's restoring the old abbey. Immediately when I saw Abby, I'm like, all right, well this is the abby. This is the abbey from the prologue. Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, because you know we the friar that beat that boy to death is in the abbey walking to his room where he gets killed and you know, gets Sally's there, that's where she runs away from. Yeah. Yeah, So immediately when I saw Abby and Abby, I'm like, this is the same abbey. It's like a building, church building. Yeah. And Carmen, even as they're walking through this little market, Carmen is questioning bringing them because of a sales attitude, but also the dangers of Mexico. It's not a safe place for women, yeah, especially with you know, the rise of infemicides that have been happening over the years. That they touch on that as well throughout the book. And so while they're in this market, Carmen is in her head just thinking all these things. They run into some pignatas, like someone's selling Pinatas, and then is a Lunary said, who's like, do you even have a license to Sally's. I'm like, you're at the fucking shut up it's he said, obviously. They said, yeah, like who cares? It's not like do they not have burgas in New York too? You've never been to like, I know, you've seen the bootleg pinatas and the bootleg CDIs and the bootleg movies. Like, stop, it's never like us in New York? Do they Happeniata's? Actually I don't know yas. I'm just saying that. Someone tell us, Yeah, I've never been to a plea me neither. I have always seen them in shows, and well, this looks cooler than the little corner stores we have. It's like a deli and like a corner store together. Yeah yeah, like a liquor store. Yeah. So yeah, I was like, you said stop it. Yeah. And while they're at the at the piata stand, Carmen reminds the girls they have a birthday party to go to. He said, it is like I didn't want to go, and Lunas excited, and Carmen needs and wants to go because she needs to socialize and try and get along with her employees. Yeah, they don't like her, no one, because they don't see her as Mexican. And I forgot it was Carmen born in Mexico and then taken to the US. Yeah, yeah, so she is Mexican. But after you spend so much time out of there, you know it's not the same, not anymore. Yeah, especially when you're taken as a child. They don't consider new Mexican in Mexico anymore American. A lot a lot going on in this book, A lot that makes you think, because you know, here you get a mix of like the different types of Mexicans. Like you get Carmen who was taken as a child and raised in the US, but like she is actually Mexican. Her mom left Mexico but is Mexican. She's not on this trip with them. The girls are Mexican American, but really more American than anything. And they're in Mexico for the first time, and it almost seems like she didn't really teach them anything about Mexico or the trip, so like they wouldn't have been excited if they had never been exposed to the culture beforehand. So then so now you got these kids. Yeah, so yeah, just a lot, a lot going on here, and so yeah, they see Carmen as an outside and then on top of that, she's a woman, and so they respect her even less as the person running this project at the abbey. No boss girls over here over there. Later they get to the party. I'm like, again, I'm condensing a little bit, so I'm just giving some parts. So now they're at the party at the foreman's house. Juaquin who especially doesn't respect Carmen, he hates her. Yeah, when he when she gets there, he's like, oh, I didn't think you'd come. And she's like, well, you invited me. Oh, but I didn't think you would come. I can already imagine like Nony who maybe does just see like the politeness behind this. Yeah, So Luna Nicelle go off with the rest of the kids while Carmen sits with father Veron, who is her contact at the church. So not the boss, but he is the boss, the point person. Yeah, be a point person, and he introduces her to quietly. Immediately, I was like, love, love, He's my favorite until you see Kim along until Yorsey then I mean Yorty, and I'm like, uh, I love Yorty. I feel like in this situation, I would always be asking myself what w w oh my gosh, yeah yeah, what would do? Yeah? Okay, Sony back to Quney Sole is an indigenous man who also works in the abbey restoring carvings on rocks. While they're talking, Luna wanders off and she wrote into another girl and the girl's name. Upon first read, I missed this really yeah, and I read it it Because I read this, I sort of read it twice because I was switching back and forth between the audiobook and the book. I get forgetting where I was. I listened to the audio book after I finished it. Okay, okay, the audiobook is also it was a great experience I had. Agree. Yeah, I feel like reading it both ways. I feel like it's the best way to go to me. Yeah, I did like the audiobook because then you get to hear the not what words, the pronunciation especially that's especially and also just a person reading it. This such an amazing job, especially with the parts of later on where we transitable words. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So yeah. Both ways were great to listen to. But also I think if you don't know what you're looking at you might not know how to read these names. I did, Yeah, we do, and I think a lot of our listeners will. But I was listening to another podcast, Why am I listening to this? And they're like, I couldn't even conceptualize how to read the names, and I'm like, really, I mean you could have looked it up too, But also like like, Q it's to me, I think because we're reading it in Spanish though, but even in English, I feel like for me that would have been like, actually, no, it's because you're right. They would have been like quarterly, quarterly. What they say I forgot, you'll see, I don't know what they say. Yeah, they keep saying it wrong. Yeah, so us. I think in anyone who has heard things in Spanish, you see these names. But I think the auto I was gonna say, I will say when in the Naula, when she's doing her like chant or curse whatever it is a song also that they sing. I didn't know how to pronounce an all and am song. Guy. I listened to the audiobook. Yeah, and it's also and you're listening to it and they're saying it, and I almost felt enchanted. I was like yeah, it was completing. Take me, yeah, take me, yeah, it was. It was like I recommend this an audiobook for sure. Oh yeah, oh yeah, so sorry. I don't know how this started so either. Oh the name Kit Sally, yes, so yeah. When I first listened, I didn't realize it was the same girl that they said Kat Sally is the trouble maker and she runs off the sister the brother in the prologue. I didn't. I didn't make the connection the first time. I did the same thing, but with the Abby, I didn't put twenty together that it was the same Abby. But with Kit Sally, I'm like, oh, this is get Sally. Yeah, okat Sali girls back. Yeah. So Luna runs runs into another girl at the party who introduces herself as KT Sally, and Kit Sally offers Luna to show her around. They're gonna play hide and seek the best hiding spots in the house. Yes, yea, and Luna is very happy. She's like, yeah, I would love that. So Luna follows the little girl to the best hiding spot, an old shed and this part's fucking creepy. Thirty seven. Yes, Luna is following her, and Kasani tells her it's just some old shed. Come on, there's a really good hiding place under some of the old shelves in here. Luna stepped forward and felt the change on temperature. The shed seemed to be an emanating, cool, damp air that sent a shiver across Luna's skin as she edged forward to the small opening of the shed doors. When Luna placed a hand on the side of the door and slipped in, an unpleasant chill came over her body. It felt as if she slid through some unseen membrane at the opening that spread within the shed. Her eyes did not ad just within the limitless dark, she heard Katsani's voice utter the words We've been waiting for you to arrite for so long. That was so scary. Oh when I read that, I was like, it's like my heart dropped. What do you mean? We so yeah, horrifying, very very and just the again, the imagery, the words like the membrane of the shed, like, what do you mean memorane? What do you mean? Yeah? Beautiful, beautifully written truly, And then Luna runs out away after all this happens, she runs back out, but then she forgets immediately. Yeah, but it's part of the haunting. It's like it because she's like the dumb kid, my child. He would have forgotten. I would have forgotten. Probably me too, because I am like my child and he is like me. That makes sense. Yeah, I literally would have forgotten. But her, it's the part of the hunting that she doesn't because she her first intentions to go tell her mom what happened. Yeah, then she forgets. Yeah, so she's running and then she runs into her mom, who tells her, Hey, I've been looking for you. It's time to break the pignata. And the kids are doing that. They're breaking a little pata. And it's fun because you can see the words we all seeing as children, so fun, so fun as we say it, that pan as we said it was zero motion, yeah, and they we're like, so fun, so fucking dumb. The adults are having some deep as conversations about the pat I'm just gonna read that quote really quick as well, because yes, oh I loved it. And then father terons like I knew you to would get along. I knew you would have some deep ass convos. So Quatly and Carmen, who are having this conversation. Actually, I think it's no, no, it is no. No, that bitch is dumb. Yeah, my bad doesn't like her. He would never have this conversation with her. Yeah, he would never talk to her so quietly. Is the one who says this. I think. I think what we like them about kids hitting the pinata is watching them transform into little monsters. How they enjoy breaking something into pieces. They're in a fit of laughter but also brimming with violence. The pignata is a cathartic thing for kids, It really is. I kind of do remember that feeling from being a kid. Yeah, and like you're just hitting the sting again and again it breaks and you're laughing, but you're beating something up. Yeah, good times. And even now it's still fun hitting pinata as we for our birthday. And then, actually, Carmen's what she says back is also a little deep, but it also pretentious. According to her, I thought it was fine, but she says, now that you mention it, it's true. Precisely. What makes this tradition a little disturbing is that it's staging the loss of innocence. And then I thought about it and I was like, no, that is pretentious. How was this staging the loss of innocence. You're hitting up Pyatta. I like what Quietly said better me too. Ten out of ten for him, five out of ten for her. Yeah, I would agree. Oh sorry, one more thing quite because then Quietly replies, and his reply is also better. But I'm starting to think I just like what these much better. He says. It's a strange thing, even perfers to make children break something pretty to eat its entrails. Yeah, I mean, I do not want to hear about entrails ever again after this book. No. I enjoyed it, but I don't want to read about them anyway. I do not. I do not want to think about enjoying the Yeah, like please, no, Yeah, I'm gonna next time. We're feeling a pianta, I'm like, have you finished feeling its entrails? Oh my god? Yes, yeah, try to remember that. Yeah. We leave the party in chapter four and meet yort Sya finally my fav queen. She's walking in the market behind the Sanchez family, but she doesn't know it at the time, but she sees Luda and she consents there's something different about her. Something's off here, Yeah, something that puts her in profound danger and it's like a spiritual type of danger. And we also learned your sea is indigenous. She she speaks not what she's one of the She comes from one of the oldest families in the area as well as Quatly, and she says, you know, they go way back. She has the ability to see the inside of other people, so like what they're made of, who you are, like their aura sort of their aura, yeah, which is also like it's a gift, but it's also a curse. Yeah, And she says, like, how can I even fall in love with Like she knows everything about them, Like part of the beauty of love is getting to know the person. She already knows everything as soon as she sees you. So yeah, a gift done a curse. And she's like, you know, we're following her along the market. She's taking all these things to herself. She gets dizzy and almost faints, which causes Luna to turn around and see her. But then Yorty kind of hides in the crowd and hangs back and keeps following them, and that's when she sees them say hi to quietly, and so she's like, oh, they know quietly, this is my chance. So she goes to Quatly and tells them like she wants him to introduce her to the Carmen and quietly is like why immediately yeah, whye. Georgy tells him it's she's in danger. Her heart is exposed, and he's like, how how do you mean house sway explica now, so your seat tells him like, well, do you know about the And we have talked about them a little bit on as book tells Suso also has a great episode on them. But they're basically the these goddesses that come down from the descend from the sky at the end of the world, at the end of the fifth world, and this is the fifth world right now that we're in. They're also they come from women who die at birth become c miss and they're like these warriors, but also they're gonna come at the end of the world and like destroy everything. They come with the apocalypse basically, so they're warriors but also deadly and scary bringers of the apocalypse. Yeah. Yeah, he's like I really know these stories. He's I'm like you I know this already. We were raised basically together kind of yeah, and so quietly is hesitant because he believes your see. He doesn't doubt your see. But he's like, he's like, how do you tell this to Americans? Basically Americans? You know exactly what he says, Yeah, they're strangers and Americans like, they don't know, they don't understand the ways of yah ways, they don't know, they don't believe. And she starts speaking naw, and I'm gonna attempt to read it, but I didn't listen. Again, this is she's singing, right, she's singing it, yeah, And this is she's singing the same part. I would need to listen to it again to know how to pronounce it. Yeah, and I did a while ago, but not today. So she's saying yehwa chiki yahwa ipan pampa niets la pampas And that could have been a little wrong, but it was also like semi right. Some parts were off, though, but basically that's what she's saying again and again quietly shakes her out of her trance, and he's like, what song was that? It sounds a little familiar, and she's like, I was singing. She's like, what song? But still he was still hesitating in introducing them. So Georgsey doesn't wait for him to make introductions. She goes down to the abbey and boy does it go wrong. She's like, I'm from City Hall. And then Carmen's like, what do you want? She's like, fuck city Hall. Fuck, I've dealt with you fuckers for too long. I can't give any more money. Fuck off. Yeah, and then when Georgsey starts trying to explain, like, oh, your daughter might be in danger, She's like, are you threatening me? Yeah? Honestly, coming really annoyed me here, and I understand why she reacted the way that she did. Give you and see a chance man like meets no harm. Yeah, Like, I get it from Karmen's point of view because she has seen the hostelites. She doesn't believe these things. So yeah, but it's like me, if at this moment, even in that situation, Yorty came to me and said, your child believe How what do I need to do? Help me? It's it's like when we go to Mexico and whatever THEIA says you need to do this, when we're leaving the cemetery, I'm like doing it. I'm doing it. I'm gonna do it. I don't care. And yeah, I did it. And if they tell me you need to walk in circles before you enter this building, I'm doing it. I don't care me too. It's like she has zero respect for the beliefs of your sea. But I understand she's afraid, and people react this way when they're afraid, you know. So yeah, I get At the same time, I get it, but I'm also annoyed. Yeah, because she's immediately under defensive. She's like she doesn't want to listen to any she's already stressed out too, so like I get it, Yeah, I get it. Tries to say no, it's like, it's not like that, it's spiritual, and she's like, this is nonsense. Also, your tea is giving off weird vibes because while she's in the office of Carmen, she sees like spirits or something like everywhere, and so she's looking around, lancing around, so she kind of looks a little bit crazy. Carmon in us like sketchy ass behavior, which makes sense, it does. Yeah, but it's your sea, you seeless yeah yeah, and we love her, but Karmen doesn't know it yet. Yeah. Also, Yorty doesn't know why she's seen so many spirits because she sees them sometimes, but I think Carmen's office is the first place she sees a ton of them. At the same time, she's like, what the hell is happening. She's also like whoa, yeah, because she's not used to seeing this many. She even says when we first meet her, like, I see them sometimes sometimes spirits present themselves to me, but not all the time. So yeah, this is We're on both their ends honestly. Yea, but still believe your syst believe your always believe your tea, always always believe your sea, and yeah, karma goes on Mama bear. Yersey has no choice but to run out of there, and she runs. She gets to the plaza and she's like, damn, I messed that up. As she drinks not coca. She's got to calm the nerves, so yes, yeah, nothing better than a cook for that. Yeah. Carmen calls her daughters just to check on them after Yorty leaves, and they're okay, and then she's like, I gotta go. That was so weird. I've had enough of today, Like I'm done, and she gathers her things and walks out of the office. When she runs into Quietly. Yorty did say, I know quietly before she before she told Karmen all of this, so now she's suspicious of quietly out zone. So now she runs into Quietly and she's like, who the hell did you send to me? He's like what and he's like, oh, no, you mean yalty, Oh Yorty. She means no harm. Yeah, and that's what he told her. She means no harm. She's just spiritual. She believes that the old nahuaweis. Carmen's like, okay, but she had no right to try and scare me with all these legends, like these old legends, and he's like, no, she didn't mean it that way. After sent back and forth like this, Karmen agrees to hear Yorty out, so her and Quaetly are going to go over to their house later to talk about this what Yorty wanted to say that Carmen didn't want to hear. So same time, you see he's walking around the plaza and then like the skies go dark and it's filled with butterflies, very scary. She closes her eyes because she's getting like all these like sensations, you know, dizziness at the same time. So she closes her eyes and she starts repeating those same words that she had been saying to quietly, the same not what it's like a song, it's a song. Yeah, So she starts like singing these words again, and she doesn't know what she's saying, but she thinks it's the same phrase. When she opens her eyes, there's a man holding his face and he's bleeding. I didn't quite under what happened to him. Was it the butterflies? Yeah, the butterflies like a tax his face kind of, And then it's like, uh, he thinks he gouged his eyes out, but they're just cut, like I think. She sees it initially like worse than it is, but then like yeah, she comes back to reality. Then she realizes like, yeah, he's bleeding, but he's probably not, as he's not as bad as she thought first. Right, Okay, that makes so much more sense. So she walks him over to the hospital. And then she's walking back home after that, confused, scared, and she's like I don't know what's going on, but whatever this is, it's happening way too fast. Then Karmen gets home, the door's open, both girls are like, we didn't leave it open, and we swear. She's like, why is that door open? She keeps asking them. They're like, damn, chill, We're like, what's going not a big deal, calm down, she'll out yeah. So she she's nervous, but she drops it. Then they're eating dinner and she asks them again, like, I know you said the door was closed, but like, you can tell me anything. You could tell me, but did you guys see anything weird? And he said is like no, and then Luna's like, oh, that's that old lady. Do you mean that old lady that just walks around and waves around weird waves. She's like, why didn't you tell me about her before? I thought it was fine? Yeah? I thought she was just saying hi. She just walks by every single day, making the weird same hand motions that it's not exactly high, but I thought it was high. It was dying during that part, and Carmen's like, does she say anything? Does she do anything? And Luna's like, no, she just waves funny and walks by. He said, It's like, wow, mom, you're really gonna worry about the old lady And they should have and they all should have worried. Carmen drops it again. She's like, fine, fine, whatever, it's not a big deal. She's washing dishes after dinner and she's like again contemplating, overthinking why am I here? That I make a mistake? My daughters say to here, like just overthinking life. Every church she's made up to that day broke me out of my and then me know she's doing this when she notices a bracelet. It's woven and old and it has six green stones. Carmen's like, what is this doing here? She asks the girls if they know what it came from, and then fucking Luna is like, it looks like that old ladies, but they don't know how it got there. So again Carmen drops it. But then in bed she's like, okay, this is a sign I see this weird bracelet. Luna mentions the old lady Yorte came to me with her weird shit. Yeah again, more self doubt, more wondering why am I here? Questioning every life choice. Off to that, ruminating ruminating a lot. Yeah. Then she's at work. It gets worse. They get the wrong supplies. It turns out that fucking quacking the foreman order them on purpose. Yeah, he's trying to pocket to money for himself and cut corners and pocket the money that he saves from cutting corners. And she's like, bitch, you better stop. Yeah, you better get the supplies that I wanted. Everyone loses more respect for her in this moment because they're like, this is just how we do things here. Like, yeah, she's not wrong here, but also I don't know when in Rome. Yeah, I feel like she's holding on, like she's trying to hold onto too much power. And sometimes you have to have a little bit of cultural humility. And I understand not wanting to, you know, because feminism, but sometimes you gotta. You gotta adapt to where you're at. Yeah. Even father Vedon is like, that's just how they do things down here. Yeah. She's like, if you want to get that involved, okay, that's on you. But he's like, I dadavit against it and yeah, and she doubles down. Yeah, And I get both sides. I get She's like, yeah you saw me, he got that said yeah, not just but dad yeah too. Yeah, And they're like my head, you see them like I said, yeah, no, no way, So yeah, I see both science. I would have Honestly, I don't think this is something I would have to put down and be like, I'm just gonna do my job and go home, that's it. Yeah. Also, I just don't care enough. I'll just say. But she's like a go getter. She is ambitious response, you know, I feel like me, like four years ago, that would have been me. Now just just I'm just just there. Yeah, And like me, I'm like, all right, if that's what you want to do. But when something goes wrong, it's gonna go wrong. And like maybe they're not trying to blame me like I told yeah with them. Yeah that's me. But I get it because at the same time, this is such an important project. It's restoring this old building, but also it's restoring it not for it's gonna turn into like a what boutique hotel something like that. Yeah, So I don't know. Yeah, I have no respect for the church anyway, so i'd be like, whatever you doing you want, Yeah, exactly true. That's a fucking place for all I care. Let it burn, burn it. Yeah. Well, let's give a shout out to our Patreon members. All right, So first the shout out to our newest member, Audrey thank you so much for joining the eight Dollars No Mamas super series. Spooky Tier add a quick shout out to the rest of our amazing members, Ane Breene, Drosaio, Avery, Lissandro, Robin, Karen, Wendy and Leslie, Leslie and Wesley Sorry Wesley and Leslie, alec Elc Bearded Ghoul. I don't know if you want me to say John or bearded cool, bearded gool, John, Carina Mannimal Archer, Marlene, Patricia, Marilyn, Lupe, Jorge, Anastasia, Juan, Clarissa, Mickey, La, Marina, Angel hell Fire, Herson, Alejandro, Lany, Chatta, Christina, Marie, Desiree, Sonya, Liliana, Natcho, Mama Nellie, Alex and Astriel, Malia and Marie Belle, Ashes, Janeye, Michelle, Movesto, Perlo, Jessenya, Martin or Cozlone. It is go Strain at Matdtown Charity. Seriously, thank you all of you so much. I'm so sorry I was behind on the shoutouts. I did it live. What's that thing people say, Let's do it live, Let's do it live. Yeah, that was me right now with the shout out. So yeah, and if anyone wants to be like our amazing patron members and join the Patreon. At the lowest tier, you get the shout out that I just did. The tier after that you get the bonus episodes we do, and the highest tier, the eight dollar tier, you get you know, everything below that and a special awesome keychain. It's black and it's like not plastic and uh it's like a punchet. And so that's the keychain that gets in t how you know, one time to the eight dollar members and it's just it's a not keychain. And then if you join as a free member, you get to see the book club discussions and posts. All the book of stuff is on Patreon for free and that's where you can participate in the discussion questions. But also you can just click on the newsletter. So so even yeah, like I said, even father Vidon tells her like, maybe chill a little bit. She's like, you don't tell me and what to do? She would gets into it with him and I'm like, oh my god, he's like whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm just trying to keep the peace here. So you know, it's already it's already a bad day. Worsh Then she leaves home and she's met with a sense attitude. Dude, Yeah, which is best. It's annoying. It happens, So it happens. It happens. Yeah, she didn't want to come, so, you know, she wanted to be with her white friends in New York. And every time, like Excel is being mean to her, she's like, you know, I can't follow her for that because I was the worst daughter. So at least she's not out there running the streets. She's just being mean to me. Yeah, and she does literally say that every single time. I'm like, by the fourth time, I'm like, I don't think we need to hear this again. We kind of get it. Yeah, yeah, that little that's who Gorman is. She overthinks everything that's true, that that, and then but at the same time, not enough. She overthinks things about herself. Yeah, the wrong things really, So she brushes it off because Georgy and Quietly are coming over. And first they come over, they teach Luna who wants to know and he said doesn't care. But she does manage to have conversation with them, like she that's true. She does. Yeah, yeah, she gets a little bit more. She's a little more engaged than normal. They tell her about the history and their culture and it's fascinating, it's a fun read. And so then they're like, all right, we got to get to business. So they dismissed. The girls are like, you gotta go, we gotta talk about all stuff. Georgy is trying to explain things to Carmen, the spiritual things. Carmen is dismissive, like, oh, what if it's your imagination? But also this bracelet showed up and like Luna's mention an old lady, but she still doesn't believe Yzy like plea see annoying? Like so's she wanted to annoy them here and then not believe anything they have to say, what was the point of this? Yeah, and it's like where do you think this bracelet came from? The door was open when you got here. This old lady's passing by the same time, same day, making weird movements. Please immediately I would have been like if I didn't listen to Yortsey when she came to my office the first time after Gardman is still dismissive to what you're suggesting, when she should not be because of everything else that has happened. Yeah, too many weird things going on, but no, she isn't listening. Yorty tells her like, what if this old lady only appears to be an old lady and it actually is not an old lady? Which I would have been like tell me more, please, and Carmen was like, I'm more concerned with that, leaving, Like, shut the fuck up, Carmen and listen to Yortsey for real, and then whatever, Yorty and Quad leave. It didn't go as well as Yortsey wanted. The next week, at work, while Carmen is in her office, she gets a call from me Sel, who tells her they got bored and then walking over and they're almost there. This freaks carmenal because she's like, dad one them walking around Mexico, it's so dangerous. I don't think they're that far from her work, though, I think it's I think they're pretty close. But you know how she is or she's ruminating on the wrong things. Yeah, she should be worried about that old lady. So she freaks out. She runs out and is calling and calling and calling again. They're not answering. She thinks she is he sail walking in the street, and Luna isn't with her, so she's calling and calling and running after what she thinks, as he said, when she gets closer, it's nai Cel. It's the old lady, so creepy. As soon as that happened, I would have speed dial your tea, you know, I would have ran to the plaza to find your sea bell, would have hunted down Qualeine. I'd be like, call, you'll see right now, call her. I would have been running up and down the streets, yelling quietly and you'll see again and again. And so one of them answer yeah, yeah, but no the old lady. Okay, So Carmen's getting closer. The old lady grow grows louder and louder. She's like chanting something that Carmen can't understand. Karmen is yelling for Luna and Issel and she the old Lady's still there, so she's she turns around and yells the old lady, who the hell are you? What do you want? The old lady tells her she's looking for her daughter. Yeah, and Karmen is like, who is your daughter? And then the old lady moves closer and she's chanting something that Carmen can't understand. She gets dizzy and light headed. The whole time this old Lady's engine closer and closer. It looks like something is growing out of her chest, out of her shawl. It looks like something's protruding out and it's getting bigger. And as that's happening, Carmen is closing her eyes, like covering them with her hand. She's trying to keep her balance. Suddenly it feels like she can't feel the sun anymore, the warmth of the sun, so the temperature drops, and she's like swiping on her phone, trying to answer because now it seems like one of them is calling her back. He said, I suppose she's the one with the phone because she's older. So she's she answers the phone and it's he sail. Then Carmen, she's pulled out of whatever's going on and she's back in reality now, and she's like, where the hell are you guys, and Exall is like, chillow, we turned around to go get Luna's sketch. Bug calmed down and Carmen dismisses this as like some hallucination. She's just dressed She's like, I'm so stressed out. I'm having hallucinations and I'm like, oh my god, how do you write everything off? Like yeah, she's brushing off the undo. Some people do this. So that's true, that's true. The Nile is strong, it is. Yeah, what is that thing that went around to Tech for a while? Then the Nile is the river in Nidrum. Oh it's Wendy Williams. Somebody called her life. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. The Nile is a river in Egypt. Your husband is I don't know what she says, Yeah, yeah, that's Carmen. So she's like whatever. Uh. She just walks the girls inside her office they were into quietly. Who gives something to Carmen like a little eagle warrior type thing. I don't know, Stone, I don't remember. Anyway, the girl stay in the office Quietly is there to show her the work she's been he's been doing at the abbey. The foreman and Juaquin is supposed to be there, but he's not there because he doesn't give a fuck about like he just does whatever he wants, like this man for real? Yeah, seriously, So the girl stay in the office, Quetlye and Carmen are walking around and that's when they hear in a big crash and so a structure had come down and it revealed another room in the abbey that's not in the blueprints. Carmen is like, oh my god, we got to call like the Deparminent of Anthropology and History at the university, We call UNESCO and all that. Yeah, everything, and Father is like, that's gonna takes necessary. Do we really need to do that? Everything inside this room is the church is anyway, like it's probably about garbage, but it's old sacred things like please, yeah, he doesn't want to do that. It could take it could halt the construction for months months. And as they're discussing what to do, Luna is digging around and there you can hear like the clinking sounds of her beinach mosa and she finds the pieces of a broken pot. She asks what it is. Quati tells her that it is at a pignata. And I'm gonna read this part from page one eleven. It's shortly replied, quietly, what is that a pinnata for children to break? Not exactly, it's a sacrifice, an offer klama Nalitzi is evaluable. I've never seen one like this. It's rare, but I don't know if it's valuable. Then Father ViOn, this is the property of the church. I'll have to speak to my superiors. And then quietly, you think everything belongs to you. But you know, as we know, because we've read the prologue. Yep, could this be the same one? I think so, yeah, because this is the same Abby. And yes, Talie is that same girl, and so this has to be the same Piata. And I don't think anyone or no do they do they let Luna take it? No, she sneaks in and takes it. They can't do it, no, okay, So he planning to steal it up again and just leave everything how it is, and even quietly says like that's better off. They're better off doing that, because he's like, somethings are better off far away from people to reach, because I think he knows what this could mean in the wrong hands. And they agree to seal it off. But before they seal it off, Luna sneaks in there and takes it. Yeah, yes, okay, that's what's happening, all right. Once they're back home having dinner, the girls are like, are we gonna get sent back home? And at first Karmen's like, no, you know, don't worry. We don't know what's happening yet. But that's exactly what happens. She's fired. Yeah, she's blamed for this, and I feel like Quaquin has something to do with this because he wasn't there. Yeah, yeah, like he Savostaur is something. But also I don't think anyone knew about the room either. No, but we know from the prologue that's something horrible happened in that And I feel like, not secretly, but like on a deeper level, quietly knows something horrible happened in that room. Yeah. And maybe because of all the things yor Sey has been telling them too, I think that's why he wanted to just be so love instead. Yeah, And honestly, after this, it's like things weird, things keep happening in the escalating manner. Yes, yeah, creempy scary visions, apparitions, yes, hauntings, yes, including to yort See. She's seeing things too, now, more things, and she's like, this isn't normal. Something that's happening, and I have to think that the room being open now is what made it worse, the PGATA being taken the yes, yeah. Yeah. So they go go back to New York. But the airport that was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So they already kind of sense Luna being a little like she doesn't want anyone to see the things she's drying, not being her normal self, her normal cheerful self. Yeah. And it's like I get that she's eleven, but also the drastic of a change in this little time should be ringing bells. Yeah, and he said, seems to be the only one concerned. Yeah, well, I feel like Carman notices it. But she's like, well, she didn't want to leave Mexico so soon, and you know what I mean. So she's like excusing it. Yeah, she brushes it off, like everything else she's been brushing off. She makes excuses. But the airport part was crazy. So they're at the airport and they're trying to get through security and they open up luna suit case and there's a bunch of crickets. Yeah, but the ones you eat, the ones do you eat? Yeah? And you're supposed to be able to take those that's food, right, Yeah? I think so, I don't know. I hate taking anything because they pull you aside, they look into her shit, and I get so anxious and I got I was so mad at our mom. Once we brought Hello cheese back and I was like, I don't want to bring the cheese. They're gonna like tell us something. I was stressful. I brought a hit time with me, like one thing happens, but just thought it stresses me out. Yeah, no, I get you, I get you. Yeah. So they get pulled apart aside and they throw away her crickets because it's like they don't want food to go through. I think because it's a carry on though not I think because they're Chappolinas. They're like animals, so they're trying to say these are animals, and then they're like, okay, yes, technically they're animals, but they're for food. They're dead, they're gonna be yeah yeah. And so then Luna starts like eating them by the handful because she's in a very disgusting manner. Yes, yeah, like when eat the respectfully when at a time, But she's mad, and so she's like, yeah, Karma doesn't even know what to do because normally she doesn't even have to parent these kids that much because they're just ChIL kids. Yeah, like they have their little attitude. But you know what, he says, I didn't want to be there, And at least she's not as crazy as she was of you know, the same thing she says again and again. Yeah, and she she's very Yeah, she doesn't have to do much with either of them. She works a lot, so it's like this is and then she's never been in the situation, especially with Luyash who's acting like a weirdo, and that weirdo behavior just continues. Then they get on the airplane and she starts like beating the ship out of his sad like and Karma's like, what the fuck is going on right now? Like you guys don't act like this, like what's happening? And he said, it's like it's not me. Yeah. And then after she's done being the shadout of a sand, she's standing there staring off into the distance like a weirdo. That should have been like the first sign like something's not right. Actually, sorry, this is like the tenth sign. There's a lot of sign. She's already I seen a little weird Yeah. At this moment, we as a reader is like, all right, she's possessed. Yeah, it's getting weird. Yeah, it's getting worse. And then back in New York, she just escalates even more. Luna spends it all day with her door closed. Whence Karmen goes back to work that they're back in New York and Mo the mom is there watching them, and she's mean as fuck to the g to her little grandma, to Adma, and I'm was like, this is weird. She's like, she doesn't act this. But then we know how where Carmen gets her her laid back attitude from, because Alma's like, well, she just got back from Mexico. She's upset. I'm just going to give her space, and yeah, that's like the respectable thing to do. Like I know the mom would have like knocked her door down and been like, you don't get any space. You need to tell me what space in house, meaning there's space in Mexican. But I don't think it's a wrong approach. I think it makes sense in the position that they're in. Yeah, but here they would have they should have been a little more aggressive because she was in the middle of a haunting of a possession. But they didn't know that. No, they didn't know that we have more information than them, but Carmen, No, no, no, Carmen should have known because of all the bracelet, the door we made, seeing the same old lady, and then sees that they're protruding out of that chest of the old lady. And also they see she doesn't see the old lady at the airport, but he said sees her, Yeah, and he said, hadn't seen her as much as Luna. Yeah, yeah, but it's the same person. She knows it's the same person. She's like, did she follow us from Mexico the funk? Yeah, And I would have told my mom, So yeah, there should have been she had been a little more obvious at this point. But she's like a dad. But that there's no story without that, No, So I'm fine with it. But also I understand the class understand Carmen being like this because when she's not a spiritual person, she's disconnected from me culture, so she's even less spiritual. Not that all Mexicans are, but like the majority, like I mean, last our listeners, we may not go to church, we all believe, yeah that our fought like exact exactly, and Carmen didn't grow up that way her did not fight, and so she doesn't believe this, or if she did, she just doesn't know about it. Yeah. Yeah, so I understand at the same time why Carmen is so hesitant about everything. So at the same time I get it, But at the same time, there were so many signs. So, yeah, the airport is weird. At home, it gets weirder. Luna is weirder. Yeah, are we skipping forward to the stairs or what? Yes, that's exactly where I was heading. Do you want to talk about that party you want to take over? Well, okay, Luna's been a weirdo. She's been a weirdo right since they get back from Mexico. I don't know. I don't even think it's been a fucking day. I think it's been only a day. Yeah, Like, it hasn't been long. Yeah, it's either been one day or a few days. And Alma knocks at her door because Luna's been ignoring her all day, which is not typical of Luna to do, but whatever. You know, she has a lot of emotions, so she needs space. At one point, Alma hears weird noises, like like something moving up in her room. Yeah, like like something's being dragged, like just to me, a lot of dumping. Yeah, not normal. And so she I think she knocks. I don't remember exactly what happens. Point is, she knocks, but either either she knocks or decides to not knock, get not alone. And then she's like going back, you know, heading back down to the stairs because she's like, okay, whatever, and she hears a cricket. She sees a cricket. Yeah, she sees a cricket in the stairs, a giant cricket. And honestly, I could not as I was reading this book, is it a cricket or a locust locus? I'm not sure does but they say cricket, don't they big cricket? Oh you know what Yeah, just a big cricket. Yeah yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. So as I was reading this, every time I close my eyes, I would see an ugly ass cricket, Like I was like, yeah, anyway, she sees the cricket, and the what comes out of the cricket more crickets. I don't know. It's like at meane or I can't pronounce that, Oh my god, the meme. Yes, the something comes out because she's like I saw. Later on, when she tells Carmen about it, she's like, I saw death herself. So isn't it the goddess? It's yeah, it is the ct Yeah. So she sees a TC me, man, doesn't it say something? I'm trying to find the page now. But okay, hold on, it's about to happen. Okay, is said, leaves the house because she's gonna go with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend that she was texting on Mexico and there's a good about the thumb Natti here al I was like, what is she doing and he said, is like, no clue. But I heard her last sign too, and so then she's like leaving the house and then oh she opens the door. Yeah, she opens her She's like, what do you want? You didn't need to knock, so fucking rude, dude. I will never tell my grandma that. Mm hmm whatever. She doesn't want to talk about anything. So then Ama leaves and she sees the pignana right, and she's like, what is that? And then she's like, I don't want to talk about it. Let's see she steps out of the room. Yeah, she steps out of the room. She's walking down the stairs and she hears a sound. Yeah, she sees oh, I said, cricket, it's a grasshopper. Grasshopper. That's when she saw a large green grasshopper. And then I don't know if it's like coming out of it, but she's says yeah. There was a skeleton with the insect like wings addressed to the nines and golden and gemstone jewelry floating over the stairs. Its skirt was made of seashells musically clinking against each other. Oh, I thought it does something about it doesn't say anything. She just sees it. She's terrified, of course, so that she falls down the stairs and presumably she screams. But who does nothing? Fucking Luna does not the little fucking monster. It's not her though, it's uh yeah over her. Yeah yeah. And then Carmen is like, why did you call you? I felt so bad? I was like kind of funny. She's like, I'm no mad at you are, just you know how to call for nine one? What? Why didn't you call? Little? Was like whatever, I just say a here my row imagine shining Grandma's bleeding out from her fucking bottle. Dump after dump after your ship. God. Oh, my god, but this is not Luna. She's not being herself. She's not herself, and she feels bad about everything at the end. But again, it's not her fault. It's not her fault. She was possessed. Oh my god, that was hilarious. Okay, we need a fast forward an hour fast forward. Ship happened, A bunch of shit happens on me. In the hospital, Carmen is distraught. She sees the old lady on the train. At some point, she gets worse. Luna starts acting up in school. She guts picking on her. Right, these guys are picking on her. They're horrible. I'm like, what kind of old ass high schooler is bully? A middle middle middle schooler like tweaking weird In the same place, she's crying, tears are coming out of her last Yeah, I guess it must be like a joint middle and high school. That's whine. Yeah, I think you're right. At one point, she gets into an argument with her teacher about conversation. I don't want to hear about it. She's right, No, she was not wrong. She was spitting backs, ye, straight backs. If I had folded the page, I would read the part. But basically my teacher teaching the wrong history. Luna was like, why are you teaching this fake ass history? White colonizing bitch, that's basically what happens. Yeah, you don't know ship, How are you gonna tell me this fake as history about my people? Fuck you? And then she was like how dare you? This is right? Okay, and then she's like, no colonizer. Basically, at some point she's like censors to the office, and the teacher like grabs Luna, but she like is just grabbing her. She shouldn't have ate a hand. She grabs her risk but then like she gets engrossed into this vision from Luna's possessed, Yeah, from possessed entity, and this vision engrosses her so much and scares her so much that she grips Luna really really hard, causes bruises. But she doesn't do it on purpose. No, and Luna possessed Luna knew, yeah, this was gonna happen. Yeah, and so then then I think it's still possessed. Luna's like, you're hurting me, you're hurting me, and then the teacher gets in trouble. Carmen again goes all mama bear, but like again at the wrong. Yeah, her daughter is possessed, but she doesn't know she does. Her daughter's a literal fucking demon. We let her mom all down the stairs, oh man. And then later on and the same boys are picking on Karmen and she's like, basically curses them of Luna. Sorry, they're picking on Luna, and Luna basically curses them. She's like, I wish she would just die. Yeah, and then they die. The children's voice in the audiobook is so fucking funny to me. It is it is. I'm like, it's good, die yeah, and then she curses all the three the three boys, and they do die, and that's it. Feel it's bad. I feel bad. I don't right because there's like a fight, Like now, there's a fight. Now finally stands up for her sisters. She actually sees what's going on and it's bad. And her boyfriend steps into they fight. Yeah, Luna gets into it, gouges at the guy's like faces and stuff like, and they're like, you're crazy, you're crazy, but they deserved it. Yeah, fuck around and find out. Fools they did. They fucked their literal definition to fuck around and find out because then they especially the haunting. Yes, oh my god. They all die horrific deaths. One of them is in a car crash. But before they get into these days, before they die, they see that met Yes, yeah, and it's bad. The worst one though. The guy's playing some game, some ship. He's like, I pinched the Nixican girl about it, which cemented his need to die to me. Yes, same, and so then he the guy playing with him, is like, what's that behind you? He's like what? Then it's static? Yeah, already horrifying. Then it turns around and there it is, and he ends up like getting like choked. What is I don't even remember? But they all, three of them, I grew some deaths, and I'll say I was there for it. I was there for it. Yeah, I was happy. It was great. Is it after their deaths? When it jumps to your sea and quietly in Mexico? Yeah, you're seeing quietly or is like, hey, I need to get to New York. I need to warn this family because that stuff is happening to them too. That's why they know something is wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah, your see. Especially she basically loses her mind. She can't tell reality from the spirits. It's too much. She's sees like all the account's ancestor and they're all talking in Spanish and they're they're all digous languages like at the same time, so she can't understand or see anything like. So she makes her way to quad Lee's apartment or house for help and quietly knows and he himself has seen an operation at the abbey. Yes, and the operation tells him like, hey, you need to get out of the way. You're either with us or we're gonna kill you too, like yeah, we're here for revenge. Yes, And so he believes her too, and he's like, all right, I can't let you go alone. He's gonna help her too, and they make their way into the US, which sorry not to bring them up again. I don't know their name, but the other podcast we listen to that cover this because I like to like listen to things that we're going to talk about me too. And then I hate what they do with it. But they're like, oh my god, how can they possibly leave Mexico. It's like people do it all the time. Do you know people do this right? Like you know, like this is a real trip people make. Yes, And it goes exactly how they did it, like there was nothing unrealistic about it. No, not at all. They find a Coyota scruis them over, they fight their way out and oh my god, when quietly Oh died, so sad, and it's so she has to leave him there because she has to keep going. And she's like, I can't take you with me. That got me, that got me to, that got me to and it was rough, it was rough. And then I think I can see how after that it's a little hard for her to get there. But the spirits gude power her ancestors exactly, Her ancestors are telling her where to go. Makes sense. I'm not questioning anything is possible with the guy. When your ancestors are helping you out, Yeah, you can do anything. And so she gets to because at this point there's in the US, but they're like in a border town. Basically, they're barely across the border. Yeah, somewhere in the South Texas. She makes your way to New York. Yeah, she makes her with her ancestors. Yeah, so to me, believable. And meanwhile in the Sancha's house, she has hit the fan. Uh, Carmen, Carmen saw They're all they're all from ess Luna. Yeah, her room, grass hoppers everywhere. You can't open the door, like they have basically ignored her because they can't. They don't know what to do with her. They just let her shut herself into her room. Like. Yeah, Carmen finally contacted help. She called Father vet On in Mexico and he's like, this is possession. I don't know what I can do, but I'm gonna make my ways and I'm gonna help you. We're going to meet on this day and it's like the holidays now. And also he does some research before he goes down there and that was super interesting too. That was so cool to read. Yeah, he goes down to webla or something to like where the all the archives are and all these like codexes and shit, and he looks into like what is a ritual that can help and all these other things and that it was fascinating to read. And this is where we learn about the apocalypse basically and the Fifth Son and how they never got to complete I guess that ritual. Yeah, and so it's not good for anyone, anyone. Yeah, this is going to be the end of the world. That's gonna stop it. Yeah, and Luna's bringing up On. Yeah, so father Vidon is like, look, I'm gonna do what I can. And so he is also heading towards New York. He gets on a plane, he goes through his journey too, and then he dies. Yeah. I feel bad for him. I did, because I feel like, yeah, he was he like you could see he was just he was just trying to help and he felt bad for what priests in the past had done. But you know he wasn't the way the didn't care. Yeah, it didn't care if you're a good no, yeah, no, it doesn't matter. And yeah, his death was so sad. It was. And then Carmen doesn't know when do they learn. She calls the hotel. She gets hotels like, hey, father Vidon, is he in this room? He was supposed to meet me? And then the waiter not waiter, the hotel person is like, ooh, actually the police are in there right now. He's dead. And she's like, oh my god, Oh my god, who's gonna help me now? Yeah, but she he did kind of tell her a little bit about what they needed to do, so try it on their own. Yeah, they're gonna they're doing whatever they need to because also, shit is going down now. Now, it's getting so much worse. Now there's like these moths, uh everywhere, Yeah, attacking, like taking over the sky. He said. And her boyfriend were in a car accident because he couldn't even see. Now he's in a coma. He's in a key. He's in a coma. Now everyone's inna coma. Everyone's faking dying. Yeah, literally, that is what happens in the apocalypse. That's the apocalypse and shut it down. Yes, And so he said, you know, rushes back to her mom. She's like, we're gonna do this, Richu war ourselves. We need to make a fire, a very very big fire to try and stop this. And then you know they're trying to do this, and yours arrives at some point. Yeah, she gets there, I think as soon as they're about to start the fire, and she knows what to do. Yeah, because she's amazing, she's the best. The ancestors have guided her to exactly where she needs to go. And this part too, I think to some it seems a little like all right, this kind of fell like at the point at this point, but I thought it was like, it's not I mean it's I thought it was powerful, like her speaking to the Yes, is it Sally or is it Sally's mom? Oh okay, she's looking for her daughter for kit Sally? Yeah? Or is it Sally? I'm not sure because it's the old lady. You know what I think the old lady goes to because has we skipped over this, but has a see a dream where she sees she basically old woman. What happens, yeah, the old lady. Oh, it is good Sally because they catch up. They're chasing her, after her to catch up to Ko Sally. They like are killing her and she curses everyone as they're killing her. This part was insane. Oh my god, I kind of want to find it because yeah, it was. It was a lot the way she curses them. That's why they're in the predicament there right now because of this curse. But have no I should have marked down, like I didn't mark down that part because I didn't read that part. I listened to it. Oh, but I'm like, where does it happen before she leaves it? Just before she completely loses it. I want to say, I forgot to say. There's a part where Luna before all this Luna calls sorry, Carmen hears Luna funny till excuses that. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, the way that would never happen. I can't find it. I can't find it because I just got it. This butterfly scene, I don't remember when it happens, but it's such a powerful, powerful, terrifying scene. But I mean, like basically we see the from the prologue, is it continues that we see the Friars catch up to get Sally. They you know, are going to kill her. Oh I'm almost there, because in fifteen you want to calls Quatly to tell him about the dream, and he's like, you're calling me at this time to tell me about a dream. So I'm almosh, I was there. Okay, Okay, thirteen is them at the house. I think, no, that's so good. It happens early on then, yeah, I feel like everything kind of happened so fast. So you know, that's why I don't understand. I saw the critiques of this book that it's like it's slow and then picks up. But I'm like, to me, just like from beginning to end, I you get like you have to have I feel like you have to be like Latina to enjoy reading about their time in Mexico. And I don't know, I mean I wish you wouldn't have to. Yeah, what does it happen? Because she but I mean that's really it. But also when is it that your sees everyone and she sees quatly. Oh that part was so beautiful. It's the ending right before she gets there. Literally, everything happens so fast, like yeah, from her leaving quietly to get into New York, the part yeah vedon dies on page tuos MD, and then like there's not a lot of book left and Joy still has to get to them. Like it's insane. They're going to make the fire that's on two seventy six. Yeah, I don't know where her dream happens, but it's insane. That part is so good. Yeah, but as they're about to make the giant fire, Oh, I think I found it. It might be in twenty one. Yes, it's in chapter twenty one. So she like starts to drifting off and then she like wakes up and she realizes it's do Laningo. But before development, so she's in the forest and she sees an old woman hunch like a haggard old woman, hunched over and I think this she's like either digging something. This is where she realizes, that's where she knows the song from. It's like from their ancestors. The friars catch up to the women and the priest is like, I'll give you a credit. I didn't expect to have to chase you this far. And I'm pretty sure it's Katsally. I feel like it's kitz Sally made me think of that because Katali we see her running away from them. Yeah, and it's years later. Yeah, the fire, this is just so brutal. She's trying to finish the the ritual, right, is that she's doing her stem or something? Yeah big, I don't know. Yeah. The priest that finds her, they be her basically, Yeah, they tell her horrible things. Yeah. Yorsy is watching all this and she's like, man, this is brutal too, Like, yeah, she can't take this. Here's the curse. And she says this with every ounce of hatred that she can render. You know what I mean. I don't know if it's the I think it is this. She says, you spill my blood to try and erase our gods our language. You think spilling blood will see the end of us. We've been bleeding into this land since the first sun rose over the world. Our gods live in the dirt as they live in our blood. Where in the food your bastard soldiers will eat from the crops and the water, you be foul. And then she like cuts herself, takes out her entrails and digs them up right, Yeah, yeah, digs them. They start falling, our sacrifice basically, yeah. Her introls begin to fall out, along with many pieces of large clay. And then she also says, my rage is the rage of my gods, the rage of my people, the rage of my blood. You've spilled it will last as long as my heart. And then she casts her heart into the remaining embers of her fire. She she yeah, this is her sacrifice and her curse. Oh and right after this dream is when yourty loses it. So then everything else that we mentioned before her journey and everything with quietly to the United States happens after this. Yes, and this that is Katally, the same girl that is now possessing Luna. So Yorty gets to them as they're like making the giant fire, and I want to say carman ran into the house. He said, it's still outside. She sees your tea first, She's like, it's me or don't want to worry. Yeah, because she said I thought it would get with wine and dragged. At this point, yeah, she's looking rough. She's like, what are you doing here? She's like, I'm here to stop all this. And she asked where Quietly is and I almost cried again because Quietly didn't make it. I know, I'm trying to find where she sees them because I want to, like it's a little bit after this, I think we're not Page twenty one. She asks them if they're attempting a new fire ceremony, and he said He's like yeah, a father Vedon was supposed to do it with them and an exorcism, but he also didn't make it. So this is kind of like there. This is the part of the movie where they're acknowledging their losses, like, yeah, father Vedon didn't make it. Quietly didn't make it. Oh, and it's rough. It's rough. And this is where Orsi starts singing the song that she's been accidentally singing the whole time. I found where she sees quietly, Oh yeah, there he passes, because you know she's been seeing her ancestors. This whole tis right, it's on to sixty four quietly of course, has already passed away. She keeps making her way and as she's crossing into the Texas state line, she's drifting off into sleep and she sees specters guiding her along the highway, and then it says, among the luminous, indiscernible faces, she saw quad Lee's grinning face. I'm gonna cry. Sorry, I gotcha. And he knew he and knew he had been telling the truth when he said he'd be watching now for everyone. I think this is hitting harder because also the other Muertos, just as sign. I don't know if I can say it without crying. So, as I've said many times, i haven't gone through it through this year, and we're really like the past two to three years. Yeah, and I'm gonna cry. So so yeah, I was saying I've been going through it just a little bit after I would pass away, and I've had a few dreams of him, and so my mom always says, it's because he knows you're going through it, so he does I've had zero dreams. Yeah, I have not had these little signs that other people have. And he just he knows and you need him more than me, right, And that's why my mom says and brings me to tears every time, and so on the other mortals. I lit my first candles and I was already crying, and I the way my house is, like, my kitchen is a little closed off, but there's like a door that was there, so it's like a door frame. And then I could see the window that faces out to one part of the backyard and so I look out and there's like a hummingbird on colibrit yes, at the window, and I my husband was in the kitchen. He was looking somewhere else in the kitchen though, and I was like, look a hummingbird. But then he turned and it was already gone. So it felt like it was just for me, just for you to see. Yeah, yeah, and like I know other people, just a bird Mexicans co Libri. Did you ever see that that video I saw? I shared it. He probably said it to me, Oh yeah, No. The one I saw was a meme on Instagram. Just at the picture. It's like the little funny looking dog with a hat on that store and it's like, looks like it's crying. And there's a humming bird you yeah, yeah, that was That's what that was you, but it was him. It felt so real. So I'm like, it has to be. It has to it has to And and I don't see humming birds anywhere. I can't tell you the last time I saw a hummingbird. Yeah. So yeah that reading that part right now again it hit even harder. Yeah, and like these signs there they are in places you know there's Yeah, it's real. And so now back to where we are in the book, we're Amostone's making her way in the house with the cell behind her, and she's singing the song for people I love honesty. I want to listen to the audiobook just to listen to that again, just to hear these word. Times I heard it, I was like I felt like a piece inside. No, it was so comforting, it was. It really was just something about I don't know and again like you and I we don't know what what like old and said what it meant? Yea also kind of happy it doesn't at the same time, that's true. I get what you're saying, I get what you're saying. It's it sounds beautiful, It really does. She's seeing these words. They're walking through the house, the the entity that has been possessing her. Kit Sally, She's hurt, She is hurting. She saw these horrible things. It was the end of her world. What happened, you know, it was even though the world went on, like they were destroyed. Yeah, and she saw such horrible things. She's in so much pain. And your scene knows it. Your sey isn't blaming her. Your sy isn't like saying you evil. You know how the movies are casting out a demon and they're being so vicious about it. Your see is being so empathetic. Kait Sally needs it, and this it was just it was so beautiful, reminding her like Luna, this is your family. Kit Sally is like, no, it's anymore. You're just like you know what, Kitsally, I saw you. I saw you that night that you create those men. And she sings this. She keeps singing the song and her ancestors are singing with her. They surround her, Yeah, and they are singing with her. Her and Luna are like locked in this strands together the ancestors are all there, and they had to separate the pinata from the heart that's inside the pinata. And so while your see is like saying all these things, Luna and not Luna, he said, has to grab it and pulse it apart based and then they have to throw it in the fire. And so her and Jorsey like run after they pull this to go throw it in the fire, and Carmen stays to try and stop the demon from her not demon, but like the you know, mim from following so that they can burn it. Yeah, Yorsey continues, you pitting the same song and like I'm gonna read the words, but like they're not gonna sound as good as they do on the audiobook. But yeah, wa in so ChIL siki yeats laslas sola I sail. And again it sounds way better than the audiobook. I'm amazing. Honestly, I don't know what it means that I don't want to It just sounds so beautiful. I want to keep it for them. But it was comforting. Yes, I completely agree. And once they throw it in the fire, it's Luna again. You can tell. And now you're seeing the old women are like looking at each other. I think, is what's happening. And the old woman says, get Suddenly, I came all the way, all this way for you and it's too late. And it's like she just wanted her daughter. She was trying to find her daughter too. It's just so sad. It really is, like you understand her anger. Yeah, and then the thing I didn't like though, kind of like the Sanchez family. They're hugging each other, they're embracing each other. They turn around looking for You're gone. I wish they would have had a time, like a debriefing together. Yeah, but yeah, she has she has things. She knows what she needs to do because your ancestors are guiding her. And yeah, she she has to get to work immediately. Yeah, and the book ends, Oh sorry, Luna has the dream of her own. After all this, everyone's okay. I goes to the hospital at the end. Oh my god, that was also so beautiful. I forgot about this. Yeah, this is actually how I wanted to say really quick. So, yeah, you talked about how basically this goddess spirit whatever was angry. I guess she's a meya. But anyway, Yeah, she's like talking to her and yeah, you said about the Kitali. When she says, I came all this way for you, but I was too late, and that's when she dissipates, right, yes, yeah, and so then Carmen asked what was that? And then Luna. I thought it was one who said this, But Luna is the one who says she wanted the same thing you wanted. She want her family back, She wanted their home to be returned to how it was. And then Yortzy says, we have to live among the living. History moves with the swift cruelty fighting. It is impossible. The spirits of the dead, unable to leave their grudges behind, poison the air for the living. Luckily, many of my ancestors understood that more than others. Without them, I would have never been able to stop the door from fully opening within your daughter. So I don't know, I like, I kind of liked reading that because I think it's easy. It helped. It's It's like to me, what I said is like, it's easier to hold on to the hatred, yes, than to like accept you have. The harder thing is like the world. It's like you have to accept that book the reality yes, even though for Katally and her whole entire family, her brother literally got Vita down in front of her, her mom and her were separated, so many, so many deaths, so so much pain. We you know, unfortunately come from that pain and the people that brought on that pain. And at some point, yeah, it happened, and it's terrible, and yeah, the cry, you know what remind me of I don't want to bring this back to Avatar, but it reminded me of when he finds out about his the air Nomads being killed. Yes, yeah, and him being the last Airbender. He's like the only one left, and like the pain that he feels and he goes into Avatar mode and then Katara's like, no, like we have to move on, blahlah blah. Like that's what it reminds me of the whole time that Yot was like trying to talk the spirit down. That's what reminded me of. Yeah, oh my god, scene for scene. Yeah, yeah, I just love how you're always bringing things back to Avatar. I really am. And I really like the live version or whatever it's called, the Hive Action, especially because it's a little bit different than the cartoon and they show the Airbenders fighting and they don't show that in the cartoon, and it made me cry. Legit, it made me cry because I'm like, they fought, yeah, you know, they fought to their last breath, and I was like crying. Yeah, it just makes me think all again all the horrible things that our aunt sisters have gone through and and sadly for so many of us, it's like the same, both sides of it are present, right, yeah, but yeah, it's horrible and it's something still happening today to indigenous people and they're out here still fighting, like the them being alive today is resisting its power, you know. And that's just that your tea. That's what she's basically saying too at the end. But back to the net dream, that's just the last thing that happens. Sorry, well you told me to speed things up. Okay, I'm so sorry. I know I did. But now that I'm like, have the book open in front of me, I I'm the last page. You know where we talked about your tea. You know, she has stuff to do. Yeah, and you know, as she's walking away, like our ancestors are all like around her, right, and she says the dead are now ever really gone? They stick around in the soil, the dust, in our stories and songs, Traces of them, all of those within me now, traces shades of the past from in a picture. And then her ancestors respond to her like in her head and they're like, why would God be any different? So she like, I feel like she knows she has to keep going. Yes, yeah, okay, now, and that's that's the last thing we see of Yorzy. She wanders off, and I want a whole book of Yorksey's adventures. So yeah, I don't think you're listening, but someone please clip this if you know him, and send it to him and tell him, like, we need adventures, a whole book about what Yorty does after please, yeah, please, but I really need that in my life right now. Yeah. But so Yorty leaves, everyone has to go to the hospital because Josh Annabela are awake. Now Josh's unas or he said, his boyfriend that got on the coma after the butterflies, Yeah, obstting a butterfly attack. Yes, so they're awake and they go to the hospital and then you know, things are jolly while they're there. Luna dozes off against her mother's chest and she drifts into sleep, and for the first time since becoming possessed in Mexico, she has a dream. She's in the deep forest, the suns over her head. She following a small girl that is going through this forest tree. The girl's body is bruised and cut from days of traveling. Every once in a while, the girl stops and stays still, like she's listening for footsteps. This is Katzali, This is Katsani after she ran away. They traveled together for days. The girl never aware Luna was following, Luna following the whole time. They go to a river. The girl breaks into a sprint, and then the girl across the water. The girl stares back into a group of Nawa tending to a fire and cooking what they have foraged. There's women and children among them, injured people. They're welcoming refugees by the fire. She sits down against a tree and bites into a frew. Finally able to rest. They're running for so long. She looks into the sun and she hums herself. The song that Yorksy has been singing the whole time. The song that Yorty is saying to save Luna and just I feel like this is Kitzally finally reunited with her family. Yeah right, And I almost cried. I wondered if it was. Oh yeah, because in the beginning, when Kittali's first running away, do they catch up to her? They do? Huh, Now we don't never, we don't need a catch up, Okay. So I feel like this could either be like in I don't know, in the afterlife or something when she re unites with her family, or she did escape and found refuge with other nahwa and so like her mom, even though her mom never found her. She went on to resh, Yeah, yeah, I wonder I think you're I feel like I'm right. Yeah, I think you're right. And that's fucking amazing. Yeah chills, chills. Yeah. So I thought it was a beautiful ending to a beautiful book. Me to questions, discussion, questions, We've made it finally. Sorry, that was all the recap and thoughts of the book, because it was such an amazing book. It was I'm going to reread this for sure, me too. This is probably gonna be a yearly the read for me. Yes, I feel like it's so it's so the other one of those. Yeah, just the answers is coming back looking for revenge but then uniting to save this Luna and the world. The world's amazing, It's gonna be the end of the world. Yeah, it was. I love the books. Let's get into questions. Yeah, so the first question. The book is set in Mexico and then in New York, with a lot of history and culture with into it. Did you feel like it took away from the story or added to it? Oh? For sure, I added to it. I feel like we couldn't. This story would not have been the same without the history. Yeah, we needed to be in Medico for all this to happen, first of all, but we also needed to understand the history and the horrible things that happened to Sure, sure, Kat Sally into the monster's mom. Sally is it Sali mom? Now? I don't know, you know what, I'm not sure because yeah, in the beginning, okay, with Kit, Sally is the one running away, right and then Kit Sally is the one who presents herself to Luna, but then for her daughters. Yeah, so maybe it's both of them. I don't know. I don't know. That's part, isn't I think it's her mom. And I think because her mom knows she needed Luna, and she presented herself as her daughter, maybe okay to lure her. You know, I think you're right. I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right. But let us know if you think otherwise. If you have other daughters, yeah, we wanted to hear them, and nobody wrote in just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, But yeah, no, and I agree with you completely that we needed both things. I saw some people say that it took away from the experience of the book. I'm like, now, you're right. So first of all, I don't think you should give an opinion. You're not allowed to read this. I think you can read this book. I think you need read this book. But I don't think you need to let us know what we thought about it. No, because it was necessary. And for me, first of all, I love like obviously me and you we love history, yes, hence our history podcast, So I never mind. I love a horror history where we get a mix of both. This is why I love Garcia does the same thing, Veronica Castro, same thing, honestly, and I love it. I'm here for it, and this book did it beautifully? Oh yeah, and it was like it wasn't like like some I think some books force it in to me. It didn't feel worst. Oh no. Father Vedon is telling it at one point because he needs to learn about the ritual I needs to be done. I loved like all of that. Yeah. When quat Lean your cr at the house telling the girls the girls don't know, they need to know, and they're also letting us know like I don't. I didn't. It didn't feel worse to me anything. Even if there was more of it. I would have loved that too. Yeah. Yeah, because this could have been longer and I would have loved it, And it could have been more history and I would have loved it. Okay, the story is mostly about what is happening to Luna, but we get multiple perspectives. How did you feel about this? Did you want more from certain characters? Or did it add any confusion for you to for the plot? I'm sorry, one Moon. Okay, the story is mostly about what's happening to Luna, but we got multiple perspectives. How did you feel about this? Did you want more from certain characters? Did the multiple perspectives add confusion to the plot. No, I don't think it was confusing. I loved following along everyone's like journeys while all of this was happening. I feel like I could have used a less of Gottman's thoughts and more of your ty thoughts. Like I get it she was a mom, But yeah, I would have loved more quietly on me too. Honestly, this was in their perspective. I'm just kidding that Wulda made sense. It would have made sense. Luna is the one being honest to whatever. I personally felt like we had enough of Luna. I I don't really even think I needed to hear from Luna Orsen, Like, Okay, the other podcast that we listened to, they were like, oh, I wish I would have got more from is said, and I'm like, no, honestly we did. I think we got the right amount of Acent me too, if not too much, maybe a little less Carmen a little more recent once they were back in New York. Yeah, because she kind of saw more. But I feel like that did happen. We did get less, that is what happened, and we did get more of the two kids in school, especially once they were in school. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so to me, I could have used less Carmen in Mexico. Yes, yeah, me too, like and more history, yeah, and more you see more kid Sally honestly, no, like it's Sally in the beginning, Like I would have loved to find out a little bit more about her life. I think it was the right amount, honestly, I do. I'm just saying why because I could have used a little bit of less Catman. But it was fine, Like, I don't I didn't need it, you know what. It was important all this rewritten from the point of view of Catalian. She's like, that's another request, but she is flying off the teacher. Yeah, you're hurting me. No, but I think it was I think it could have been less Carmen, more everyone else, honestly, but it wasn't bad. It wasn't Yeah, more Luna, I don't think so. No, I don't think so, you know, I don't think so. Okay. So also because it kept you wondering, like what the fuck is Luna doing? Yeah, it's just like the characters is yeah yeah, and I and that was perfect to be made creepier. Yeah, what did you think of Carmen? Did she make any decisions? That you wouldn't agree with. Would you have done something different? I feel like we only think we were doubling different because we we know what's happening, and she didn't. Yeah, but also I did not Yeah go ahead, no you finished, No you finished? Okay. I think also we would have done something differently culturally because if it we already know what we've already been told. I was going to say the same thing, so yeah, I thought so, yeah, I thought you were going to so I think the moment personally, the moment Jorci said spiritually, spiritually not maybe not the first time. Maybe the first time, I still would have been a little like I don't know, you you know, but in the house when her and Whattney came to the house and all those things had already happened, the bracelet, the Braley toldly twice. Yeah, yeah, at that point, I would have been like, what do I need to do? Yeah, that would have been the sign like again, yeah, you already said it. But like if my if I was going into some old ass building and my Dan told me you need to spin around three times jump and then yeah, I'm gonna do it, So yeah, I would have I would have done that differently, I do think so, yeah, I do understand why she was so hesitant and when she was ignoring everything, because at the same time, I would scary, denial is easier. That's why it's a form of uh, it's a defense mechanism for a reason, exactly exactly. So I get it. I get it. But she did get on my nerves. Yeah, she actually didn't super get on my nerves. I was just like, no, which is that the right? Yeah? Yeah, okay. So who was a villain in Pineta? How did the author portray them? Did you understand their motives and did they have redeeming qualities or human emotions? I understood the villains to be the Spaniards in my eyes, Kittally and her mom or Kitzani's mom, the mimeh. They were just doing what they felt like they needed to do. Yeah, and I was there for it. I was, of course, not in support of Luna and her family being hurt. I was in support of the three bullies being hurt. I personally wouldn't have killed father ven On, but I understood it. Yeah, I understood why it happened. Yeah, and yeah, no, I the Spaniards are the real villains. Yeah, I completely agree. And then maybe not father vid On now, but the because of his job, he had to like yeah, he had to go down. I get it, I get it. I get it. Every time we say that it makes you to give the one. It's a hudge, its pandemic. Like, I get it. I respect it. That's nobody, get it. I respect it. The Yeah, like I understand her side too. Yeah, and to me, she was not the villain. No, No, the pain caused by the colonizers, that's though, they're the villains. Yeah, that Friar in the beginning, who did that to the ool? I was so glad when he fucking died. Same and then the ones that cut up to get Sally and then yeah, that too horrible. So they're the villains. Okay, next question, I'm glad we're on the same patre. Yeah, of course. How did the author explore themes like justice, morality, revenge, royalty, survival. He hit on every single one of those. Yeah, I feel like ultimate only the answer is like empathy, Yeah, is the real power, and the real revenge is to continue living. Yeah, that was beautifully said. I don't need to say more. Cool. Yeah, we're not just trying to rush through answers with the plot, I swear with the recap sweat. Were you satisfied with the book's outcome or did you have any questions or doubts left un answered? For me, there were no plot holes. I feel like I don't know about I would have again, I just I just wanted more your c I wanted to know where she went. But I understand its own book. I know. I was gonna say, like, I would have loved to know what your se uh is up to. I would have wanted to see her talk with the family a little bit, with Gottman in them. Yeah, but I understand that she's a busy woman. Yeah. She The answert is like, all right, you need to go over their next to go. I'm ready to find out what has been up to. Yeah, And like, did Yorte maybe need some rest? No, the ancestors are helping her. She doesn't need help. She doesn't need to physically stop. She rest is the guidance of her ancest Yeah. So to me, that's fine when when her feels like it, you know, like right now, she doesn't need it. She could have kept going because she's powerful. Yeah, yeah, exactly because that was another thing that podcast was like, Ye, doesn't she needs a rest after all, dcause she's super hiven. No, she has the help of the ancestor. She's fine. Yeah, they're literally carrying her. Yes, their strength is carrying her to go on, like she probably commoted from Texas to New York. I believe it, like what. I believe it too, And I'm here for you to me too. I'm not questioning anything. No, no, no, I'm not. I'm not. I feel like I got everything I need it from this book. No, I agree, I agree. No, and I again I understand your tea will get her own book. Please out give us a Yorky sequel. Yeah, okay, yes, all right. Last question, what did you rate this book? Five upstating butterflies? That are five obstating butterflies, yes, okay for me, five miss and five mess five fives offers, yes, yeah, five bloody piatas full of entrails out of five bloody pinatas full entrails. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had a great time reading this. Yeah. I don't understand. If you didn't like this book, get the out there's this, come get them. I will call her up right now. No, but yeah, it was good. It was so good. It was so good. I had a great time reading this. Like I already said, we already said so much about it, Like I don't think we need to really odd anything else. I don't think so. No, No, But do you have any other final thoughts? No, I think that we have touched on everything that we need to touch on or needed to touch on. A beautiful combination of the horrors of the past, the horrors of colonization weaved into the present, and how these horrors affect generation after generation and things. You know. Yeah, really, that's a beautiful book. One of my favorite book club reads so far. And I say that every time. I really do think I think. I think Pianta has been my favorite. I agree, though, and I love them all. Yeah, and Pianta is up there. It is up there. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, okay, we made it before two hours later, Oh my god, I know, a whole two hours let's announce our next book club Oh I forgot what it was already, So yes, what is it? Okay? What about? Have you heard of The Witches of El Paso? No, I haven't. It's by Louis Kamio. Better than know what it's about. I saw it from Coffee and Quentos. Oh, so shout out Coffee and Guentos. Yes, I get all my book rex from her, but we haven't. I feel like we haven't read something WITCHI. No we haven't. Well, I'll here the Witches separately, but not from so you found theo synopsis. Yeah, so if you call the if you call it to the Witches, they will come. Nineteen forty three and Paso. Yes, teenager Nana already, let's do it, fuck it, so live all right, I'm down, Okay. Our next book club read is The Witches of El Paso by Louis Camio, and I'm excited me too. Yeah I haven't read something WITCHI. Yeah, we really haven't. So actually, yeah, this is awesome. All right. By the time this comes out, I will have added that to If you're on StoryGraph, the book club books are all in one challenge. You can see them, you can participate that way, so that will be added on. It'll also be on our bookshop if you want to buy the book through bookshop, and we get like some coins from that, and I will also this will be up you know obviously on Friday. So that is our next book. I'll send out the newsletter at some point. I'm very behind on things, so yeah, all right, well this was so fun, Carmen and I needed this. Thank you to me too, all right, everyone else, don't follow the little girls you don't know into sheds. Yeah. So if you see old ladies with things protruding out of their chests, that's a good strong it's been strong. Yeah. Uh stay spookye. We'll catch everyone next time by its book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen, and with the help of Don Shout out with Don. If you're enjoying the podcast considerably, gonna say five star review, we would really appreciate it. If you don't want to the a five star review, just don't leave a review. But don't leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding. You can reach out to the podcast at spots at gmail dot You can go to our website at pookitos dot com and fill out the contact form. If you want to support the podcast, you can join our Patreon, where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. Eight dollar members get an exclusive keychain. It's super cool. I got new ones and these ones are huge. And if you want to support but you can or don't want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can also get some merch. You can find shrews that say Spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie. I love the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a no Mamus shirt, which is a fan favorite. There's a lot of options, crap tops, sweaters. It's almost wetter weather. We're nearing a Spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies. You're gonna need them. If you don't want to do all that, that's fine too. You can just listen like you're listening now, and that's the best support that you can give us, like I always say in our ad break and yeah, if you like history, you can follow Estodia's Unknown Mining, Carmen's other podcasts, and you can find a Spooky toils on all of our socials at Spooky Tells All. This is in the show notes and we appreciate every single listen. Thank you so much. Stay a Spooky