The Legend of Cuatlacas & the Case of Juan Delgado (part 2)

Hello, Hello, this is Carmen Yes, and this is another episode of a Spooky Tales, the podcast for all things spooky, paranormal, haunted places, and true crime. Yeah, we're continuing my part two from last week, so we have a listener story before we get into our topics here. And if you have a story that you want to send to us, you can email a Spooky toes at gmail dot com. You can submit it on Discord, you can call it a Spooky Hotline. You can send me a DM on Instagram. That's just at a Spooky Tells. All those things are ways to get your stories to us and we love receiving them. Hello. So, I've been working at Ono Hawaiian Barbecue in stock Tins. Then opened in October twenty nineteen. Apparently a young man died of an overdose when he used to be a taco bell. I've heard from previous coworkers that they would hear a meld's voice down the hall before the store was open, by the restroom and nobody would be there. Some of the girls would freak out because they would hear banging coming from the men's room and nobody would be in there. Dishes fall off the shelf all the time. There will be times when we don't have the air conditioner on and you'll feel a cold breeze by the restrooms. I sometimes wonder if my young coworkers would feel the paranormal activity and his presence because he was young as well. Maybe he was trying to communicate with them. Also, Western Ranch is very haunted. There was the spirit that wouldn't leave my teenage daughter alone. She would tell us that she would see something walking in her room around her bed in the middle of the night, and they would sit at the foot of her bed. Sometimes it would caress her face. We spoke to someone who studied paranormal activity and they told us to have our daughter talk out loud to the spirit and politely ask it to leave and go rest in peace. She did that one night after my husband prayed and blessed the room with all of them. She never complained about the spirit bothering her ever. Again, that's so interesting about olive oil. I have never heard that people using that me neither interesting. That's new to me. Also, you know what's not new to me, but hearing that Western Ranch is haunted because someone else sent a story about Western Ranch there's a high school western ranch, and then that neighborhood is like that, that's what it's called, and that was super haunted apparently. So let's hear your paranal story. Okay, So today we're talking about something that we have already shared in one over Spanish episode, and that is El Lacas the Loos Bosquez in Mexico, of course, the quad Lacas of the forest. Right, I'm sorry at this point, just learned Spanish. I'm I know that I haven't been nice to nos amples, but now I'm not. I don't care anymore. So how you know, whatever you can translate for me, I'm not doing it anymore. Okay, I feel more alive after being mean. I have no words. Okay. There's a story that originated in the dense forests of the northern Sierra or Sierra the Puebla. It's said that a strange creature lives there, which the inhabitants of the region called the Quadlacas of the forest. See look, I was gonna translate later anyway, and many people have claimed to have seen it. People who have seen this creature describe it as a kind of caveman, large, savage looking, and completely covered in dark tangled hair. It's said that its height exceeds three meters nine feet and ten point eleven inches, so about ten feet. Its behavior is extremely hostile toward all intruders who come to the forest to cut down trees for timber trade. This legend began to circulate after some lumberjacks traveled into the thickets of the mountains aboard a truck. It was a nighttime and the full moon illuminated the trees with a faint, silvery hue. So poetic they were heading to the site to cut down trees when suddenly they heard loud wars that didn't sound like felines or any other wild animal commonly found in the forests and mountains. It sounded more like a gorilla or something similar, so they continued on their journey. They weren't too worried since they were already used to dealing with wild animals. Little by little, they went deeper and deeper into the forest. Upon reaching the work site, they disembarked from the truck with large saws and motorized cutters to cut down the thick trunks, but the fearsome wars could still be heard. They weren't just looking out for the animals. The operation they were carrying out was illegal, so they also had to be alert for the forest rangers, as they knew they were taking a risk by logging in that area, and that's why they were doing it at night, protected by the shadow. Hidden by the night, their only light was the moon. After finishing, they made a sort of camp to wait for dawn and leave with the cargo. I missed the silence. The roars were heard again, but this time they could be heard closer and louder than before. It began to rain, and just like in a horror movie, the monster appeared enraged, knocking down everything in its path. It stopped, staring at them mysteriously, as if it were complaining that they had desecrated its domain. It's like, don't fuck up my house, bitch, this is my bosque. With impressive strength, the strange creature uprooted a huge tree with its bare hands, lifting it over its head, and then threw it onto the truck, completely crushing the cap. It roared again with all its my and tried to uproof another tree. At this point, the lumberjacks ran, almost to the point of losing consciousness. They ran and eventually ran into others that had also encountered the creature and a mob formed. Once a large crowd had gathered, they went to where the beast had attacked them. They found the truck completely destroyed, but there was no log on it, So the crowd didn't believe the story from the lumberjacks. Since there's no proof of existence of quatakas, only rumors and stories from the people who live around the forest. This is just another one of the many legends that exists in Pueblin. I believe them. The hashtag believed that lumberjacks also it was kind of their fault for participated in illegal what's that called illegal lumberjacking destroying the forest logging? Thank you, I could not remember. Oh wow, it is their fault. If only Quadlakas would help us over here on this side of the border with our national forest and federal parks and all of that. Yes, yes, okay, that was a short panormal story for today, and we'll be back with my part after this ad break. And we're back, so we're continuing with my case from last week, the case of Juan Delgado. Again, the same warnings that this is a heavy case. It does involve potential maybe sexual assault, and I mean the murder of a child. So you know, listen with caution or skip this episode if you need to. But yeah, it's yeah, it's a bad one. So in part one, we left off with Juan Delgado, the investigation, the arrest, and I left off where the trial was about to start, but Joey's selection was postponed because of nine to eleven. And before I continue with the trial, I do want to talk a little bit about John Goldbriel, the murderer, the national from Egypt, yes, and how he even came to cross paths with Juan. Goldbriel was born in the small village of Tauta in southern I don't know if I'm saying that right. I'm so sorry you Tahta. Maybe someone will correct you. Yeah, but do it nicely, please, you don't bitch is not pronounced tata okay go on in the small village of Tauta in southern Egypt. His family noticed signs that he was quote disturbed from a young age. He wasn't like his brother or his four sisters. He was a lonely kid. He had almost no friends and he always had problems with his classmates, and he was also often being up for being Christian at school. He was being up for being Christian. Mm hmm. Yeah. Was his family not also being up for being Christian? Yeah? Yeah, they like at school his schoolmates were almost all Muslim and they beat him up for Christian And at one point he was apparently stacked with the compass by another student. Oh wow, also so early. But I'm I I'm always I feel like, no one is born evil, no one is born bad, right, So it's interesting to me and I wonder how much of it is What is that there's a word for when something all confirmation by us? Okay, sorry, thinking out a lot a little bit, but I wonder how much of it is confirmation by is when a relative does something horrible and then the family comes down they're like, oh they were always horrible, there were always a bad kid, they were always weird, Like, how much of that is confirmation bias? How much of it was a reaction from abuse or maybe just the personality they were a little bit different and more quiet like, and then they were ostracized, you know, right right, and then maybe the conditions and wherever they live too. That's like being brought up in times of war or things like that, or being persecuted, actually persecuted for being Christian. Real persecution. Yeah, emphasis on the real Okay, go on, yes, yeah and yeah. At one point he was sad with the compass by another student at school elementary school. I my dad, and he would often spit for no reason. His hands were always shaking. He suffered head injuries, both by accident but also from freek went beatings. Yeah, he fell a lot on his own. Point proven, no, kind of completely, He did follow a lot on his own. But also his father was physically abusive, of course he was. At some point he picked up a whole table and hit him in the head with it. Wow, what the hell? Yeah, and his father regularly used metal chains like the ones to restrain dogs like in movies. Like I feel like nobody does that anymore, but like I don't know, if you put on a movie from the nineties and there's these big dogs and they have these metal chains, I still see dogs like that. Okay, never mind, I don't those kind of chains. And when his dad would try and hit his mom, Goldbriel would try and intervene and would be beaten from I'm sorry. Fucked his family for being like I always disturbed, like you. You abused him, You threw a table at him, and then he abused his mother in front of him. Of course, that causes someone to be violent and obligatory. Not always, not everybody reacts the same way growing up. But this is a recipe for violence, like, come on, I I'm sick of this. In his early adulthood, he was trained to do agricultural work. Sorry, I had to breathe, I heard you. But then he was conscripted into the army. Great thrown into more violence. Yes, and his parents were worried because they believed the army would be very difficult for him, and they were correct. He didn't finish his service, and he returned early with his arm amputated. What happened to him? He never said what happened or how it happened, Oh my god, and nobody knows. Wow. He did, however, return with a way worse mental health situation. Of course he did. Somebody cut his arm off, Oh my god, and we don't know how it happened. Yeah, And so there was one thing he had always done since childhood. He would dig for gold because his mom told him. Whenever he was upset or whatever, she would tell him the same story about how there was gold everywhere because of pyramids and pharaohs and it being Egypt. And ever since she started telling him this story to make him feel better when he was upset, he would dig and dig, and so when he came back from the army, he would spend his time digging and digging, and this time it was different from when he was a child. He would get extremely angry when he didn't find any gold well, and he couldn't like understand that the stories were just stories from his mom and this was true since childhood, he would not hear that it was not real, and so once he returned from the army, he would get so angry when he didn't find gold. Then he would go pick fights with Muslims in his neighborhood and then get beat up. On top of that, he would also defecate inside the house on the roof in the garage. Wow. His family tried to isolate him so that he wouldn't cause any more trouble, like restraining him in a room, and his family did try to take him to several doctors over the years. Psychologists, brain surgeons, neurospecialists. They tried different medications, therapies, and eventually electric shock therapy. And so this man with a childhood of violence and mental health issues found himself in Lahabra, California. Hell, I'm going into it all right. He was granted asylum after making his way to Texas, and it was religious asylum because he was like, I'm being persecuted for being a Coptic Christian in a majority Muslim country. And so the the asylum was grunted based on this. But was this the real reason he fled to Egypt? I bet you it wasn't. No, No one knew it at the time. This information would come out during the trial. So John Goldbriel arrived in the Harbor in the late nineteen nineties and began renting a shed behind Maria at Studia's house on West Greenwood Avenue. And she described him as withdrawn, very quiet. She never really talked with him, but she did let him use her shower and her TV once in a while. Because he wasn't a shed, he didn't have access to these things, and wild that you could just rent out of shed. First of all, That's what I was gonna say. After I was done taking my sip. Yeah, that's why I said it. Yeah. And he was always out in the streets, spending his day panhandling and offering to do our jobs at a strip mall in the city, and he was known to hand candy out to kids sometimes no in your Carmen's face if you're not on video. Oh no, yeah, so, and he would always just stand near Northgate Market with the sign saying he was hungry. And that's probably how he came across Juan Delgado. Well, that's the store he used to go volunteer and get tips, right. Yeah, And Juan, being friendly and now going, became friends with Gobriel, and even his siblings saw Juan being kind to John Gobriel. They were at Taco Bell once, Juan and his siblings and they walked past John who was holding a hungry sign, and Juan used his yardwork money to buy his snickers for Gobriel and gave it to him, and his siblings noted like, oh, they look like they know each other, like their friends, and people frequently saw them walking around together at the market or the Pick and Save. About three weeks before Juan Delgado missing a leharbre Loco Alfonso Solano walked into Northgate Market and while he was about to enter the store, he passed by Juan and John Gobriel. They were standing outside of the store together and they looked like friends. Juan was running circles around Gobriel and it looked like they were playing around. But then Alfonso, who was entering the store, heard Gobriel yelling at Juan Delgado, and then Gobriel threw his hat at Juan, and Gobriel would go from laughing to yelling to looking like he was happy to mad, like these huge swings and emotions. Yes, and so you know, Alfonso made his way into the store. Once he was done shopping and heading out, Juan Delgado ran inside and he told Alfonso in Spanish, Sir, He's going to kill me. What Yeah, But Alfonso, thinking they were friends, told Juan not to worry and that if the man tried anything, kwand would mess him up because the man only had one arm, Like double, can he really do you have two arms and he has one? But he added like if the man keeps bothering, you tell this liquor store cashier to call the police. And as Alfonso was leaving, he heard John Gorebriel tell Juan Delgado, I'm going to kill you. I will kill you and eat your peepee. Oh my god, what the hell? I know that A lot of times we think like someone else will still step in, someone else will help this person or whatever. But like, no, of course it's not this man's fault or whatever. But I don't know, Like I feel like more alarm brol alarm bells should have been ringing right here. But I could see why he minimized it. Yeah, same, I could see both sides to that. Yeah, and I fulso heard Goldbriel say this several times as he walked away. And John goldbro was alone in the area because he stood out. There wasn't a lot of one armed homeless people walking around. He was the only one. And he wore the same clothes all the time, and he always stood in the same spots, so people knew him. They often gave him money or food, and wherever he was at people described him in the same way. He didn't make eye contact with anyone. He just stared and he just looked like he wasn't there, like he was dreaming. His eyes were somewhere else. He and yeah, he rarely spoke, even when he was like quote begging for money, right, he was just standing there with his hands stretched out and like someone gave him something fine, but he wouldn't say anything. Sometimes he found work handing out flyers for places, but like when he did this, he would just walk in and like jam fires in people's hands and walk out like like he didn't know how to act around people. It's yeah. Sometimes he would pass out fires in the same market that Juan Delgado helped with bags too, So that's another place that they would have like met as well. Oh, I thought that was the story you were talking about right now. So it's the same store. Oh okay, no, no, no, it's the same store. He also asked for a cashier job once a week at that same store, but the owner, mister Bolot, he always told John Gobral that they didn't have any positions. And yeah, he was always in the same places, in front of the Taco bell A donut shop, the Pick and Save. Sometimes he would walk the aisles of the Pick and Save, and employees always said they they that he made them feel uncomfortable, and most employees dealing with him all said the same thing. He made them feel uncomfortable and easy but I but I will add that this is a lot of people's views of anyone that is homeless and walks into a store. Right. But that's what they all said. Those who knew him a little better had other views of him. Father Rockhebb, who was a pre set at church in Santa Anna, and John Gobral. When he first arrived to California, he spent time in Santa Anna. So he went to this church like for six months before he stopped going and was then in Lehabra. And so this father described John Gorbrol as a humble and simple man who was not very smart, but also he ad it like I don't think he's sane of a sane mind, right, And his father would give him food and money, but Goldbriel would give it away to people he thought needed it more than him. Wow. Right. And at this church he received help from the father a lot, and the churchgoers all said they were fond of him, and they sympathized with the situation that he didn't have an arm and that he seemed like he didn't know how to deal with people, like he just said how to act, and so they were worried for him and the father. The father said he saw good in him. And obviously his own sister also has a different, different opinion of him, different from her parents too, because she in that area no Egypt. Oh, okay, okay as well. Yeah, his sister said that he was her best friend and like a father to her. Oh, she testified in court. You know how they do character testimonies. Yeah, so her and the father both testified on behalf of John Gobriel, and so she said, yeah, that he was like a father to her and her best friend. She talked about how when they were in Egypt and she was forced to start attending Sunday school classes, he went with her because she didn't want to go, and he would sit next to her and help her with like the verses and like he taught her how to draw and things like that, and she would cheer him up when he would cheer her up when she was sad. Big brother stuff. But she did in her testimony by saying, as a little girl loves her father, that's the same way I feel for him. And the defense did try to present him as mentally ill, and it would seem that he really was, Like it's kind of wild to me that he wasn't declared unfit to stand trial because there was testimonies from twenty different mental health professionals all saying that he had severe mental health issues. Wow, did he understand what was going on? Like these mental health professionals didn't think he understood what was going on. Since his arrest, he had been in and out of different psychiatric wards in jail, and he was like hurting himself, and he and he had to be like protected in jail also because of his mental health status, but also his crime, because they were worried he would be attacked. And I didn't write down all the things he was doing in prison, but like, what do you mean all the things he was doing like hurting himself? Oh, okay, okay, yeah, and yeah, he was in and out of psychiatric words. Nine separate psychiatrists. Psychiatrists separately diagnosed him as psychotic with either schizo schizo effective disorder, or schizophrenia paranoid or disorganized type. And I did want to add here that mental illness alone doesn't make a defendant, doesn't make a defendant incompetent to stand trial. And also right, there's certain qualifiers to it, yes, and also just because he was schizophrenic doesn't mean, this is why he did what he did. Like right, there are most often victims of crime as opposed to people killing people or people committing crimes. Like we have said that before. But I wanted to at of here. And so this diagnosis alone didn't make him incompetent to stand trial, and his defense team did request a trial to determine whether or not he could stand trial, whether he understood what was going on, but the judge was like, no, interesting, so they didn't even like do that. I wonder what reasoning the judge used for that. It wasn't explained in the document, like because I read it's like a two hundred and fifty page documentation of the court and then an appeal that was later filed. That's what this document was. Oh so there was an appeal mm hmm. Interesting. Yeah, but yeah, the judge just was like, no, it's not necessary. He did what he did and he knows what he did, Like that's it. Like so yeah, it doesn't seem like, uh, legally strong reason right right, And so the while that was the defense that that's what the defense tried to argue, they also tried to argue and like a defense they're trying to help their client, right, of course, So the defense attempted to establish a pattern that would show that Juan was a troubled team who was effected and often seeking the companionship of adult men. Wow. I mean, of course they were trying to spin it like that. And even if that was true, that wouldn't make what John did any less, you know. Wrong. Yeah, it's like they're trying to blame him for being killed, like, oh, well, it was his fault because it was often seeking the company of men he saw John. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it's still a crime, exactly. And they filed eleven witnesses to prove that quote, Juan was a child who sought out and was comfortable with strange adults to avoid being at home. It does not matter, but okay, it doesn't. And of those eleven, only two whir al are to testify. And they said that they would often see Juan is leyas nine pm. They'd be like, why aren't you home? I was wondering earlier why because it seemed like he never wanted to be home, right, And the reason he would give his friends is that he would get in trouble in school and then he would be spanked for it, and he didn't want to be spanked. It's what he would tell his friends. But other than that, it's then those words that I shared in the first episode. I couldn't really find another reason. Yeah, his dad was a truck driver, so he wasn't home a lot, and then it was just his mom, who also worked, and there was a lot of kids in the house. But I can think of, like, you know, yeah, maybe he didn't want to go and be spained, right, like yeah, and maybe it was like they said, they're saying spanking, but really maybe it was more harsh punishment, like we don't know. Yeah, but either way, absolutely not a reason for him to deserve to be killed like comanity. Yeah, no, yeah, And so that was what the defense was trying to show. Meanwhile, the prosecution was arguing that there was a president to show that John Goldbriel was a predator who absolutely knew what he was doing, and they called up John Golbriel's cousin, sixteen year old Michael Fuzi Fahim, and Michael said that when he was six years old, he was at his sister's wedding and the whole family was there. So this included Gobriel, and at one point during the wedding, Golbriel asked Michael if he wanted to have some suite near the house. So the pair left the wedding together and when they got to a school, John Goldbriel told Michael to take off his clothes. Wow and also like warning, this part is terrible right here. When Michael refused, Goldbriel tried to tied him up with the clothing line and pushed a handkerchief in his mouth. He then held a knife up to him and took off his clothes and his own and tried to sexually assault Michael, but he couldn't. Wow. Then John Goldbriel got dressed and he hit Michael on both sides of the jaw, then proceeded to stab him in the chest, shoulder, arm, than under his testicles. Oh my god. He also hit him in the head, which Michael claimed is the reason he now has difficulty speaking. Wow. Michael lost consciousness and then Goldbriel picked him off the clothing line and just threw him on the ground and left. When Michael rec gain consciousness, a security guard found him and he was taken to the hospital, where he gave his first statement on what happened there. He told medical staff basically what I just said. And then a little bit later police arrived and he told them that Gobriel had asked Michael to show him his penis and then stamped him when he refused. And there was a few times that Michael said Gobriel tried to assault him, and other times that he said he didn't try that, other times he said he did assault him. And so his story changed quite a bit. Not I'm just saying like that's what the record said. Like factually the record shows, yes, that story. His story changed quite a bit a few times. Yeah, And so because of this, defense then introduced the records from the Egyptian hospital he was at and court records of the event in Egypt. And so these medical reports showed that there was no damage to Michael's jaw. They didn't document any permanent damage to his speaking ability, like he said, you know, he hit me in the head and now we can't talk right. The report also showed that Michael's clothes weren't analyzed and there was no evidence of them having been torn off. Michael said he wasn't wearing any clothes when he was stabbed, but the records show that he had been stabbed with his clothes on, like they were bloody and there was a stabbing hole in them. And so the report, the official reports, contradicted some of what Michael said, and so there was no doubt he had been stabbed, but there was doubt as to whether the sexual assault happened because they you know fully examined him and there was no physical evidence of it. You know how they checked for like tearing, bruising, there was none of that, none of that to indicate he had been assaulted sexually. And I will add the report did say that Michael's father spoke with the police and he told them that John was going through some abnormal circumstances, breaking everything in the house, continuously fighting with us at home, threatening us to set the house on fire, similar to we had done to my uncle's house. So like he had issues. But at the same time, there was no physical evidence of sexual assault, which is what they tried to use this to say, Look, he's attacked a child this way before, he probably did the same like, so that didn't show that what they were saying. But this attack is the reason he left Egypt. It wasn't religious persecution. He fled right after stabbing his cousin. And so while the prosecution tried to show or tried to provide evidence to show this was premeditated, the motivation for him to do this had been sexual. He'd been eyeing him for a while. All this was circumstantial, was absolutely nothing to prove, Like they tried to say, oh, he had porn in his shed to because he was a predator, but it was like straight porn, and then they were like, well he could have been using it to entice Juan Delgado. So again all very circumstantial, like nobody could figure out, well, why did he even go with him? Honestly though, Huan was probably looking for a way to avoid his house. Yeah, and he knew John lived somewhere, you know. But yeah, there were no signs of like sexual assault, even though that's the story that the prosecution was putting forward, like well he wanted to assault him and kill him. Yeah, But nothing could prove that this was premeditated or that the that Juan had been sexually assaulted, So they couldn't prove that aspect of it. But there was absolutely no denying that John Gobre was the person who murdered Juan del Gado even though they had no motive, like no motive and no cause of death, no official cause of death either, but there was no denying that, you know, he was the one who did it. So there was like actual physical evidence that he killed him. Yes, but not of the sexual abuse then, yes, not of that or saying what actually killed him because the dismember bent happened after he was already dead. Okay, so they don't know the cause of death at this point. Yes. So Juander Gado was last seen walking with Gobriel on the afternoon of March eighteenth. I mentioned this in Part one. His classmate, who was at her family's restaurant, was the last person to see them and they were together at twelve thirty am. On March nineteenth, John Gorbriel was seen at the super kmar in Lahabra, where he bought a stock pod, cutting boards and pans, things that were found in the shed after they went in there after finding you know, those concrete cylinders. Later on the same day, on the nineteenth, John Gobral was seen at a home depot where an employee helped him pick out bags of concrete and got him or showed him the tools to mix the concrete and then helped him load it onto his Oh no, he didn't have a no, okay, so he didn't have a car. John Gobral didn't have a car, and he asked that employee if he could get a ride from them because he had a lot of stuff to carry the stuff he just bought. And the employee was like, sure, but I'm not off until later. And when she went out to look for him, he wasn't there anymore. Oh wow, So he somehow lugged it all the way to his house. I think he just took the shopping cart. Okay. Yeah. At two forty five pm, he was seen pushing a shopping cart. Oh, with all those things in that shopping cart, and he was offered a ride. But the things he had, the concrete, bags of concrete, and the tools to mix all that, it didn't fit in the persons, so they just gave him like a bottle of water and they went on their way. He continued pushing that shopping cart. Around three thirty pm, he was dropped off by someone at a construction site where a guy named Stephen Mead was working, and so someone gave him a ride. Stephen Mead offered John Gobriel a ride to his house in his pickup truck, and you know, John Gobriel agreed, he was giving them directions. During the ride, Stephen did ask like, well, what are you using all this stuff for, just like you know, normal conversation project whatever, blah blah, yes, yeah, but John Gobril didn't even like really answer him. He just said he had no means of transportation, but he needed money for his four children, which is like, it's a non answer, it's not it has nothing to do with when he asked, yeah, odd, and yeah, he you know, got there. He helped John unload the things onto the curb and went on his way. And then at eleven forty pm on the twentieth, so the next day, a woman named Gina Thompson saw someone who was later identified to be John Gobriel using one arm to push a heavy shopping cart down the sidewalk. A different man named Jose Madrigal saw Goldbriel around midnight with an empty shopping cart. And it was the morning the next morning, like a few hours later when Lorenzo Strada found those concrete cylinder, well one concrete cylinder in his yard and then all the side of his house and then the other second one was found, you know, not that far from that first one. So people literally saw him like doing time stamps of him all over the place. Yes, And I wanted to add this timeline because in the video that I saw about this case, there were so many comments of people saying that they didn't they didn't think John Goldbril was working alone, that there was a second unknown person involved. But I just don't think that's true at all, because people saw him patty all over the place by himself, pushing it by himself. Yeah, yeah, but there, Yeah, there was like hundreds of comments like that. People always think there's something more going on now, as if this is not troubling enough by itself, right, Uh. And then the another reason they say this is because they're like, well, those concrete cylinders were too heavy for him to move. But he was a big guy, and one of the cylinders was eighty eight pounds, that's not a lot for him to lift. The bigger one was two hundred pounds, but all he had to do was get it onto a shopping cart. Because he was seen pushing the shopping cart. He didn't even like like he pushed it down a hill, So that got it moves on its own after he pushed it once, you know, like all he had to do was put it on there. Like, I don't think there was someone else involved at all. They really don't. I don't think so either. And that third cylinder that was found like a year later, it was even smaller than the second one. So that's why I wanted to mention that timeline, because yeah, he was seen, like there's I don't think there was someone else involved. Also, they weren't very far from each other. From his shed to where the cylinder first one was found was a few blocks and then another few blocks after that was the second cylinder. Like it was a very small radius, Like he didn't go far, Okay, And so back to the trial. After hearing out the prosecution and the defense, the jury, I don't I couldn't find how long they deliberated from deliberated for, but they did find him guilty of first degree murder while engaged in the commission of or attempted commission or attempting to commit, sorry, attempting or attempting to commit aluter lascivious act upon the person of a child under the age of fourteen. So basically murdering him with the intention of assaulting him, which again, like the prosecution, it was only a circumstantial evidence, right, But yeah, they found him guilty and he was then sentenced to death in two thousand and two. Oh wow. In twenty eleven, there was an appeal by his legal team stating that he did not receive a fair trial, and they cited an insane amount of reasons for this, but the biggest one being that he should have been declared not fit to send trial from the beginning. Oh and there had been profound evidence even before he was imprisoned and evaluated by psychiatrists there that he was not mentally stable, that he had like, you know, a lot of issues even before. Also, the prosecution lawyer kept bringing up nine to eleven for no reason, unwarranted and then like you know, the other the judge like jury has to dismiss this, but like did they really, right? Right? Yeah? On top of that, there were well, there was a lot of reasons, but those were the main two and so and also they claimed that like the prosecution shouldn't even have been allowed to mention the possibility of sexual assault because there was zero, absolutely zero evidence that showed that like anywhere. But so that's what the they said when they filed the appeal. But in twenty eighteen, the Supreme Court ruled that despite John Golbril's history of bizarre behavior, his trial judge wasn't required to hold a mental competency hearing, and there was zero evidence that showed that John Goldbril had a serious mental impairment according to when they made this ruling, so they upheld the death the death penalty sentence. Who do you have the breakdown of the judges? I can? I can? I want to know who the Chief Justice was during this time, just wondering, Yeah, let me see, because it like he really did seem like, you know, he didn't know what was going on. I think there is definitely an argument for yeah, him, even if he hadn't been found to be mentally incompetent to sound trial or unfit, whatever the wording is, I think there's definitely an argument to have a ruling for that to be assessed for that, you know, right, Supreme Court of California is the Oh okay, it's not the Supreme Court. Okay, yeah, no, no, I'm glad that you wanted me to check though, because then now we for sure no Supreme Court of California. Yeah, yeah, and I have the public defender but see public defenders, Oh my god, what Kamala de Harris, oh attorney general? Yeah, interesting mm hmm. But who the hell was I don't see the judge name anywhere. It's fine, but yeah, I don't know his status currently. I guess he's in death row somewhere in California. Wow. But yeah, that was the the case of Juan Delgado. I mean, a super like tragic case that like in so many ways absolutely could have been prevented. Like one we don't obviously, we don't know why John Gobriel didn't continue working with his church and just staying over there because it seemed like he had supported there. But you know, if he had that and he stayed there and he just wouldn't have been in the habbor. Yeah, if he had support and help, you know, he wouldn't have been out on the street. We treated, you know, whatever he had going on. Yeah, I don't know, and then like real help like because apparently you know, not like electroshock therapy. Yeah. But yeah, it's just an overall such a sad, sad case. And I do think it's worth Sorry, I don't want to cut you off for you no go aheading out. I was gonna say anything else. I know you already mentioned it, but I think it's worth repeating that just because John Gobriel had some kind of mental illness and wasn't housed doesn't mean those are the reasons that he was violent. And in general, people that are unhoused and have mental illnesses are more commonly victims of violent crimes rather than perpetrators of violent crimes. And again, if people had the support that they needed or that they need, maybe things like this wouldn't happen. And if people weren't exposed to violence as children or in the military, you know, things like this also wouldn't happen. Yeah, Yeah, I'm a sad, sad case. You know, a young kid who had a lot of potential, could have lived a full life in the end and just you know, wrong and always. But I also wanted to bring this up because you know, there's always like when you share a case like this, there's always so many comments that are like, oh, this monster, Oh this predator, and it's like, I don't know, throughout comments like that, when one it wasn't ever physically proven that he was out here assaulting, like, yes he did stab his cousin, and yes he did kill Juan deado. But when you start throwing around like predator and it's it just I feel like it lends itself to start like I don't know, randomly throwing up, Well, that reminds me of the conversation I think we started having, or we kind of mentioned it. I think it was during the episode I remember. I don't think it was a spooky tells And for anyone that's not familiar, a episode is what we do over on the Patreon for our history podcast he Study as Unknown, where we just yap about things. And I think, is that when I had told you about these videos I had seen about the pipeline the true crime content to right wing slash Altright, Yes you did say that pipeline. And I do think that a story like this could lend itself. I think, justly lend itself, but find a different term or a different phrase. It's already now, it's part of me. A story like this could people could then believe like, oh, homeless people areus Egyptian brown people are dangerous? Are all children are prone? At all? Times to be kidnapped off the street. Oh, my children are going to be kidnapped off the street. Oh I'm going to be kidnapped from a target parking lot. I need to watch out and be vigilant of everybody, when in reality, like these things are rare. They're so rare, and there's no need to be afraid of your neighbors, that of everybody. Not everyone is out here to harm you. The police will not protect you, right. So also there's a danger of listening to true crime and then thinking, oh, we need more cops out on the street so they get their prevent crimes and whatever. Again a reminder that the police doesn't stop crimes. They respond to crimes barely sometimes and incompetently. In fact, they commit crimes. And they're the biggest gang in the United States. Yes, and that was another reason I wanted to bring up this case because of all the comments that were just like but in demonizing the perpetrator and calling him names and saying things like that, I think that the threat gets lost a little where Juan Delgado lost his life and parents lost their children, siblings lost their brother, and that's you know, that's the part that you know, that mattered, and I hope that. I don't know if his found members are still like alive. It happened a while ago. I mean his siblings probably are, but like, yeah, you know, it would have been nice that the community maybe hopefully came together and helped them get past this. And but I don't know because I'm not from there, But that's what I'd rather have people get out of this. Not to sound like I don't want to make a sound like we're defending you know, the person who did this that obviously that's wrong. There's no denying it was wrong with we did. But I always want to point out like ways that were wrong in the trial he was given, like the continuous bringing up of nine to eleven, like come on right right, yeah, and you know you can find more information on him than you can of wind the battle, like as if I was difficult. Only the case with these what is the word not popular but sensationalized yea cases. Yeah, definitely the victims get lost in the sauce. There's probably a bit of way of seen that, but but it's true. Yeah, and sorry, I want to mention one more thing again. And it's like you said, I don't want to make it seem like I'm defending this person, but I do think that everyone that's right. Oh no, what a controversial thing to say. There should be no death penalty. And anyway, you had mentioned that John was sawt and granted asylum. And and I think that hearing a story like this could also someone could twist this and be like, oh, you're seeing what people that come into our countries so you can assign them then they go on to commit crimes. Me so I can also see you know, bringing this up, yeah, to then argue against anybody seeking asylum, you know, and obviously anybody can commit a crime, you know, yeah, yeah, and again one person who did this. Yeah, but when it's a person of color, and you know, some people are like Egyptians are white, but here in the United States they are a racialized identity. I think Egyptians are white. Some people say that, Yeah, I don't know that, just like they think some people would say we're white. Oh you know what I mean. So yeah, so in that sense, like Egyptians are racialized identity here, and whenever a person of color or a black person commits a crime, then people will say this one person represents their whole ethnicity or nationality when that's not the case, Like there are people out there that for whatever reason commit crimes, commit violent crimes, and that doesn't speak on all of Egyptian people or on all of asylum seekers, Like that's just ridiculous. Come on, Yeah, unless that person that commits a crime is a cop, then yes, then place all of them. I don't give same with border patrol, same with right, because they we're talking about like a you know, institutional power organization that is given basically free will to hurt civilians. So yeah, that's yeah, a little bit different. But yeah, but yeah, yeah that was the case if you stuck till this part. This is where we take a little break again and then come back with spooky recommendations and we're back. Do you have spooky recommendations? Actually, don't have any recommendations, Oh my gosh, any recommendations. I was just focusing on trying to finish the audiobook that I was listening to. I mentioned it again on an episode what audiobook The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory American Evangelicals in Age of Extremism by Tim Alberta. Oh right, right, and you finished it? Yes, I did. Finish it. I do think it's an important book. I think it's a more I feel like it's more targeted at people that are still evangelicals, because not hashtag, not all evangelicals, but it's definitely targeted more towards people that are so evangelicals. But I think it's important if you are into books that are informing us on the crisis of Christian nationalism that we are experiencing. We are being subjucated. Two yeah, because you know here in the book, Tim talks about people that are evangelicals and are Christians that are fighting against the radicalization, extremism and Christian nationalism essentially. So I think it's important at least for me to remember that there are evangelicals that are not Christian nationalists and that don't think that the United States has been blessed by God and should be under Christian rule. It was an important reminder for me, and I learned, not all hashtag, not all the imagelic goals. I learned And I don't remember her name, but I learned that there's this woman who I believe she was a journalist or a lawyer, I don't remember anymore, but she basically was one of the leading like people that disclosed sexual abuse from one of these big evangelical churches. I don't remember. I was like Christian Baptist something maybe so othern Baptists something like that. And then she ended up leading like a task force and then the christ the church was fighting against her to try to kick her out. But she led a task force to fight against the church and to making you like guidelines and regulations of UH members and children in the church disclosing abuse. And she was also I'm I'm remembering right, she was also involved and one of the victims of the doctor from the Olympics. Oh, I've heard about her, Yes, I know who you're talking about now, the Lasser guy or Nasa. I think she was one of his victims. And she spoke out in his trial and in her and her testimony it wasn't a testimony, was a victim impact statement. She mentioned her religion because it's so important to her. But I don't know, it's such a beautiful, powerful world and I words I mean and what I think the true Christianity should be about, you know. And there's also other things in like scripture that Tim brings up because he is a son of a pastor, and he saw his church that his dad established and he grew up in, he saw it become radicalized into extremism. After his dad died and he went to his dad's service and he had this whole eulogy prepared and in staid he was like, I can't believe you guys are basically like voting for Trump when he is the antithesis of like a Christian man, you know, which is true. But they don't care. And he outlines in his book why they don't care. And again Jesus and John Wayne does the same, right, right, So it's like to me, like these books, I feel like go hand in hand. There's like at least three others on my tbr that I want to read the same. So, yeah, that's what I was finishing and listening to, and I recommend it. It's not spooky in the paranormal sense, spooky in the real life sense, which is looks okay scarier. Yeah. I have not watched anything spooky. I have been obsessed with and or I finished season one already, I'm on season two. I have made it my walking time on my treadmill is the only time I can watch it. So now I walk more. Yeah, so I've been walking two miles, two or five miles every day. Wow. And that's when I watch an episode and I'm like, oh my god, what an amazing show. I honestly was like obsessed with Star Wars for a little bit and then I kind of just like lost fell off. Yeah, after the new movies came out, and then like some of the new shows, I'm like, I don't know how I feel about these, but and or I'm like I'm obsessed. I'm completely obsessed, obsessed. It's so good. I could go on and on about how it's like the Thrid posted I mean, the message, but it's always been the same message about you know, rebellion and standing up to fascism, and so it's wild the literal empire, Yeah, it was based on the US and the Viacong is the rebellion, like you know, that's been established. Yeah, and still there's these people out here that are like, the Empires did nothing wrong. And honestly, these are probably the same people wearing shirts that say Pinochet did nothing wrong. Also, like I mean Trump literally used AI to make himself look like a sith lord, like please, Like so I mean it's like insane that people are like, oh, I don't want polytics in my shows, when like from its inception, that's what Star Wars was. Every good show and movie and like franchise, almost everything is political, right right, So yeah, that's what I've been watching. I have been watching anything horror related. So yeah, I am reading Unworthy because I listened The Unworthy. I mean because I that is audio book. Yes, we're basically done because we both finished it. Only I'm kind of like rereading the book because I bought it before. I ordered it before it was released, right, and then the day that it was released, and that's when they shipped the pre orders, you know, it became available on Libby and I'll like, yes immediately, and that's why I had listened to it before I read it, right, Yes, And I will be sending out discussion questions on The Unworthy. We will record that after Carmen's done reading rereading it, but I want to send the the discussion questions ahead of time in case anyone wants to fill them out. Yeah. Other than that, stay a spookye, we'll catch every one next time. My My As Book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and with the help of Don Shout out with Don. If you're enjoying the podcast considerably, going to say five star review, we would really appreciate it. If you don't want to the professtar review, just don't leave a review. But don't leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding. 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