Ghostly Apparitions and the LeBaron Cult (part one)

Hello, Christina here before the episode starts, I do want to give a trigger warning for my half of the episode, where I cover the Liberian Cult, part one of the Liberian cults. But it is a religious cult, so there is mention of abusing children, forcing children to marry adults, violence, I mean things like that, you know, things that come with the cult typically. So if that is something you do not want to hear, feel free to just listen to MJ's half or she has ghost stories, and I mean skip my half if you need to. And yeah, here's the episode. Hi everyone, This is Christina and this is MJ and Carmen and this is another episode of a Spooky Tales. The podcast are all things spooky and sometimes she crime and sometimes both in the same episode, which is what we're doing today. I'm talking about a cult and MJ is talking about random things, random haunted things, and I'm just here. You're going to read the listener story. Yes, finally, it's official. It's in the contract. Part of my contractional obligations. Yes, yeah, so in there in your contractual obligations is to read the listener story. Yeah, okay, should I get into it or what? Yes? I think so I think we're ready. Okay, Well, I don't know who this is from. It doesn't say Sam, it's from Sam. I cut it off when I cropped the image. Excellentally I thought I said Sam, and I was like, what's the buck? Who am I to judge someone's name? I don't know. You're right, that's what you said. That what you said? Okay, Sam says weird experience. Just thought i'd share and hopefully get your thoughts. Back when my son was two and my daughter was one, I was at home with them in the afternoon, playing in the living room. It was just them and me at home at the time, I felt the need to look up. It's never good. That's not part of the story. That was me. Stop, we know it was you. Okay, back to the story. So I did and looked up at the hallway area. I saw a dark figure with a hat. Not a hat. Okay, man, that's what I thought of it. But I was reading it earlier. Also, what the fuck? I was like, MJ will know about this? With the hat standing there. It then proceeded to continue walking. At the time, it creeped me out. So I took my kids and some of their toys outside and waited for someone to come home. At the time, and many years later that would have weird me out. In twenty eighteen, my family and I moved to a completely different city, and this occurrence still crosses my mind every once in a while. June twenty twenty three, my children are now fourteen and fifteen. I had taken a nap. I dreamt that I was back at my previous home, walking from the laundry room to the stairs down the hallway. I look to my right and I can see a young me playing with my kids in the living room. Then suddenly, looking up, I could see my fear. Was I my own man in a hat? Oh my god? What Okay? The first time I read it, I didn't get it, But now I get it. Strange she saw herself in the future. I've heard of that too, Like, I'm not like what people say is not like actual ghosts. It's just like this weird time loop. Like a glitch in time. Yeah, like a glitch in time where you're either seeing the past or the other future happening better than the hat man, for sure, Like a time lapse. No, like a time a glitch, Oh, glitch, that's right time laps is time passing? Oh you guys said it? Oh my god, I'm sorry what you made me do? Anyway, Yes, thank you Sam for your story. And if you have any stories that you want to send to the podcast, you can email au Spokitos at gmail dot com. You can DM us on our socials and apparently you can also click contact us on our website. I didn't know that there were stories waiting there, so that was very exciting for me to learn discover new stories. Yeah, like two days ago discord, that's another option. All this is in the show notes. And yeah, we love your stories. I also have like two voicemails that I still have to play. I keep forgetting to download them, but yeah, we love receiving them, all of them in whatever form they come. And yeah, onto the episode. MJ has one like Manopuruda story and some other stories she found. Yeah, I have one Manopolula story. I have a story from my mom from my parents, and one story from podcast Extra Normal Sweet. Okay, so yeah, a little more skipboard. What's the word I can't say it? Smre Yes, thank you? How do people I don't even try it? I can't I give them that thing. Yeah, a little like mix of stories. Yes, thank you. I was like, what's the better way to say this? And then I have the LeBaron cult, which is I mean, we love it's terrible, but we love cult stories. Yeah, and I'm sorry. I didn't realize how much information was out there on this cult. So I think it's going to be a two parter. I think so. So I'm Jay, you want to you want to go first? Yeah, I'll go first. Okay, sorry guys, I have the sniffles to excuse my voice today. So a man named Nestor calls into the show with the story. He goes on to explain that he is a background This is the story to I, just like jumped, was like an explanation. You enjoy the story. Well, some people might not know. Some people might not know what le Manoo that is. They should at this point, what if there's a brand new listener. First of all, welcome, We hope that you stay. We're like usually this messy, so please stay. La Mano Manola Oh my god, I can't talk there. La Mana is a Mexican radio show. It was like the OG Mexican coast to coast. People call in tell their ghost stories. We love it and we sometimes take stories from there to tell everyone else. So yes, because they're really good stories. They're amazing. Yeah, okay, so let me start over. Uh yeah, yeah. A man named Nestor calls into the show with the story. He goes on to explain that he is a DJ and that this story he took place about a year prior. He explains that he takes a deposit at the time of booking and he asked the father of the king if they were gonna dance the Wals, which I don't know if everybody has a different song they danced to in this, but I feel like it's the same one. I feel like it's it's what's his name, Chaian? I can't pronounce his name, yeah, Chayan? No, that was wrong, chi Chayan Chaianchayan is Chayan right? Actually there's a video like because I guess like him and just On Timberlain, No, they're not. They can't be the same age. Chian is older, right anyway, there's a video older. I feel like he's like, yeah, maybe our parents age if yeah, he's older. And but there's this video I saw that's like maybe one and just On Timberlake, and they're like, oh, his age, and then they show his dancing, and then they show Chayan in his age, like and how he's so much about her and dancing. Okay, he's fifty five, and let's justin he can't be fifty five. No, he's forty three. Okay, Okay, although I mean they look very honestly, Shayan looks better at his age right now. The door's over lake right now. So anyway, let's move on. So the father went on to say that no, she was not going to dance at vals, and Nestor found this incredibly strange, but you know, whatever the client wants, the client is right. The day of the party, he said that the King Sanetta entered the hall almost rushed. He said that she seemed upset and went to the kitchen of the hall. Nestor tried to talk to her, but she ignored him. And soon after the Chamblains arrived. He started playing music and a few people got on the dance floor and started dancing, but the energy was off, like no matter what he played, people weren't really partying. The entire time. The King Sanetta was dancing by herself, and so he decided to put on a playlist and went to dance with her. He danced with her for like a minute, and then something happened where he lost sight of her, and then she was just gone. He had left his DJA station with his friend who helped him with the DJ equipment. He went back to his station and his friend was like, why were you dancing by yourself? Nestor was confused and he explained that he was dancing with the King sing Itra. She did. His friend went on to say that, no, you were dancing by yourself. They ended up dropping the topic and that's when Nestor went to the kitchen. There he ran to the mom of the King Singerra. He asked her if there was anything that he could play for the King Seneta a song that she liked, and the mother looked at him with tears coming down her face. Who was so confused, And that's when the dad went on to say that, no, my daughter passed away a year prior. His daughter was so excited to one day have the King Singea as she wanted. It's so incredibly bad that they threw her at King Senea in honor of her. He goes on to explain that he doesn't know fully how she died. Nonetheless, Nestor tells the father that he just saw her. Nestor was confused because he saw the picture on the cake that the parents had ordered, the picture of the girl met the girl that he saw on the dance floor. She was also wearing a dress that wasn't on any of the professional pictures that were taken, because in Kingsangeta they have like pictures of the birthday girl and they're professionally done and all this stuff. But she was wearing a different dress than the picture than the one in the pictures, and she was clearly the same girl from the pictures, but she looked different, like maybe a little bit older. Nestor told the father like he danced with her, and the father was in disbelief. He even described the dress as she was wearing, which was again different, and the father took out his phone, and on his phone he had the picture of the dress he had bought his daughter because they were going to have the King Sanetta before she was fifteen, and it was the same dress that he saw her in. They got the videographer to replay the video he had taken of Nestor when he was on the dance floor, and they replayed it and Nestor is, of course dancing by himself. At this point, he expect I see, he's getting goosebumps. And while the videographer didn't catch Nesta dancing with the girl, he did capture her standing at a corner of the head table. She was next to her cake, and the look on her face wasn't one of sadness or happiness. She was just observing and had a serious look. They showed the video of her standing by the cake to her family, and you know, the mom becomes distraw. The father is amazed and bewildered, and there were friends there and they showed her the video and pretty much everybody from the party, you know, was asking to see the video, and everybody got a chance to see it. The father then asked for a speech and he thanked all those who attended, and he was really happy that his daughter was there with them in spirit celebrating Hurricane sing Ita. After that, the mood changed and everybody was in better spirits and they started to have like a full blown party. Finally, Oh my god, Wow, was like a sweet ghost story, so rare. Yeah, it was wild, but yeah it was sweet. Yeah, that was cute. I would have been scared though either way. I mean, yeah, I would have passed out if I dance with the ghosts. I would have been like, I know this is sweet, but I just danced with the ghost Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be the one dancing. But like, if I was in the party, I'm like, oh, this is so cool. And then he was like, man, I wondered if if if she thought my dance moves are bad and that's why she's just like bye, he got ghosts. Never mind, I'm actually gonna go back now. But you guys enjoyed the party? What was that? What kind of dance moves or that? I wonder what song they oh they were dancing? What were they dancing together? What if it was? Oh it was That's what I was gonna say. I was like, what if it was a Cumbia mix? Okayumbia, because she wasn't gonna dance the balls, so he didn't have any of that. He just put on a Cumbia mix. Al Itta is something that it looks good when you're asking by herself. You know that's true. But even then he's like I looked a little bit silly, I looked drunk. Oh man, No, that's a good one. Wow, creepy but good. So this next ghost encounter is my parents' story. And my mother was telling me the other day. I was like, you never told me this, but yeah, I was like, tell me again. I got to write this. So my parents used to have a little shop in San Francisco, and this was before my parents retired. They used to have a lady who was a regular client who would come in almost every day to get some groceries. And you know, one day her daughters came in to tell my parents that their mother had passed away, and my parents knew her very well, so they were sad, and you know, they gave the family their condolencence and stuff. And a few weeks later, that same client came in and asked my mom for something from the back. So my mom went in the back to check it and she was like wait, you know, like wait, it hit her like a ton of bricks and my mom was like, and to know, my main dad was in the front of the shop with my mom. So she runs to the front of the store and she sees this client leaving the store. My mom is freaking out. She's telling my dad like, hey, this is client so and so. They're both freaking out because she had just passed away a week or two weeks prior, and they ran out to the store to see if she was there. But she just vanished. And my parents' store at the time was at a corner. There was nowhere for this lady to just go. And she's a little old lady, right and like they would see her. Wow. Yeah, it's at an intersection of two streets, so there's only four ways she could go, and she was not going either way. She just vanished. Wow. My parents later told their daughters and their daughter's like, oh my god, she came here to say goodbye, and they saw a full solid apparition. Oh my god. So both my parents were sweet too, like she wanted to say bye to them. It is scary. She was like, but before go get my groceries from the back. She's like, I still have a habit on need my vegetables. She's going to take them to heaven with her. You know, the afterlife is no excuse for not eating your veggies exactly. Damn, Okay, I didn't know that. I know and yeah, that was it was short. It was sweet, but yeah, I was like, you never told me this, mother holding out on me. Yeah. So this next story is from podcast Extra and it's on episode twenty seven. For those who speak Spanish to go listen. They tell it way better than I do because and Bacco's guest is David Igadara, and he goes on to share a very haunting story. When he was a child, his parents divorced and he went to live with his dad. His dad had built a house in downtown Tustepec in Wahaka, and it was on a guyahone and it's like an alley way of sorts. The entire area was Manganales, which is a place with lots of mango trees. His father bought some land there and the way the house was built, there was a guy hone on both sides of the houses of the house. At the time, this was before it was fully developed. There was an entryway for each guy hone, so like they could enter in either side of the house too, as well as the front. And he was fifteen when he went to live there, and he would tell his dad all the time as a team, like there's some bad energy here. So Manganales, which a little note, my note, this is my note, not the guy on the podcast, but there's said to be paranormal places Manganales because like Duendez are supposed to live in mango trees too. Oh any tree, all the trees. Yeah, so he walked into the laundry room and there's a window that faces the yard. Also another note, according to the people other listeners during this episode, you could hear voices in the background. I didn't hear shit of the episode, but okay, he has a lot of shit, Yeah he has. He has a lot of ship Like Bucco has a lot of shit that happens to him when he records what is going on as long as it's not us, right, he always talks about it, like like ship in the background moves and then people hear like noises and other like disembodied voices, especially when he has like mediums or bruhosts on the show. I'm like, okay, I don't hear it, but you guys, let's shot this on this story. Did you guys hear the and that screen that I sent you the screen recording it was like two episodes ago for us, I was talking and there's like a clear sound. It's in our group chat. I heard, I heard what you were talking about, but I don't know. It couldn't I mean, it could have been any of us. But see, that's the thing, because when I'm editing, no one else, no other track is on at the same time unless we're talking at the same time. Like if we're talking at the same time, then I leave the tracks there, right, But if no one else is talking, the other two tracks are blank, like nothing is there. So it's only me and like recording remotely. It's not like we're recording in person. The other person's like audio doesn't bleed into your own. That's true. So I'm confused. I am a confusion. Weird, What the fuck was that? That is weird? It's the other person that lives in your house, apparently, I don't know. Like I didn't hear anything when I was recording. I was just talking, like I didn't stop talking. So clearly it's not me blowing into the mic. There's no way for me. Sometimes I get like a separate and like like if someone like next to you was blowing into the mic as you were talking. No, right, no, No, it's like a so it's like you're talking and then there's like something else blowing into the mic as you're talking. But it wasn't my children, because I was in this room and they were out there. So that's weird. I don't know. Spray somewhere. I'm not visiting anymore. I'm picking you up on Thursday. Negative, bring some ghosts propelling with you. Spray everything just on me whatever. You can continue now, Okay. At the time, David had dogs and they began barking. It was late. He doesn't remember what time it was, but it was nighttime already, and the dogs are barking at the same place. So he's in, you know, he's he's looking for his laundry and stuff, and he steps to the side, kind of like tilting his head over to look towards the window, and there's a woman. Her back was turned to him, and he's freaking out because the only girl that lived in the house was his sister and she was, you know, asleep. The dogs are barking at the direction of this figure, and where this figure was standing there was also a flower pot, and that's when he notices the woman had no legs. Oh, she had black hair and was wearing a we beat and she's facing a tree in the yard. She's just looking out. That's just a creepy and another MJ note. We beat as the traditional indigenous garment worn by women of Mexico and Central America. So he screams for his father, and she didn't disappear until his father turned all the lights, so she was He's screaming his ass off to stay here and his you know, he asked his father who lived there before, and his father was like, there was just trees. They were cut down and I built the house. So he goes on to find out like the information from what he calls their cheese mosa neighbor, and on the property not too far from their house, there was they used to live a woman who practiced. Come to find out she would bury her witchcraft stuff on the property of the house that they were living in. Why did you bury it in her own house? He's like, damn, dad, why didn't you look through the ship before you fucking built the house. She was like, I'm burying it over there, not my property. I was there somebody else's property. And his father now lives alone in the same house and still says that there's like strange stuff that happened all the time. So yeah, wow apparitions and solid ones too, that's that's so I picked the three stories because they all had similar same vibes. Yeah, full body apparitions yeah, well and three quarters apparitions yes, well, thank you Jay. That was creepy. Yeah. I guess it's gonna be a good time to like for once, and now it's an actual break instead of just the music. That's like, yeah, we're gonna take a break here, we're gonna thank our Patreon members and maybe it'll be ads. I don't know. We'll see. Sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. Okay, now we're back. Wow wow I love that. Yeah crazy. Yeah. So the Libaron cult, which when I first saw it, I kept reading it in my head as Lebren. Well, I always say it Lebron and I know that's wrong. Oh I can't let that. No, that's how I was saying it. I just said it wrong. Oh yeah, twice in my head I was saying it like Lebanon, but with an R. Lebron. Yeah yeah, but it's Leberon. So now we know. So this quote, uh, it happened in Mexico and it was led by Verel LeBaron. His church was called the Church of the First Born of the Lamb of God. Oh God, too many words, too wordy, too many, too many. Yeah, and they committed a series of murders in Mexico, of course, stated yeah, of course. But before we get into you know, how this happened, we have to talk about Arrol Le Baron and what the fuck he was doing in Mexico in the first place, because this is a white man in case of of course it is. So. Rville was born February twenty second. I think what his name is, Irville? Yeah, yeah, but it's a perfectly fine name, isn't it, Because it's very close to evil. I will judge. Maybe it was meant to be for him to be evil with that self fulfilling prophecy. But actually his friends named him so, so they did it. Yeah yeah, speaking of his parents anyway. So yes, Erville was born February twenty second, nineteen twenty five in northern Mexico, and his his birth where he was born, all of it was divine intervention because his God was or his God his father was the prophet according to himself, right of course, yeah, yes, yes, God told him. So his father, Alma de or Lebron, moved his family to gala Enna, Chihuahua because he was a polygamist. So for people that donate Hilltory, right, yeah, Irville. So after the Church of Jesus, after the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, the LDS Mormons. Yeah, yeah, that's way easier to say. So they abandoned the practice of polygamy in eighteen ninety and then some Mormons were like, we want to keep doing this, even though it was outlawed by the United States. We are going to keep doing this, and that's why we're taking our happy asses to Mexico. That's exactly what happened. Yes, I guess you know quite a bit about this. You could say I'm obsessed, she really is. Yeah, we both watched Under the Banner of Heaven because of because of you. And then I listened to the audiobook which goes into how the Mormons went to Mexico. But it happened after this, after it was outlawed in the United States. So the Lebarons were among these Mormons, so they were excommunicated. They moved to Mexico where they could continue being polygamist without the meddling of the US and the US laws. Right. So Irville's father Alma Alma. Yeah, I'm but white. So I guess it's Alma, not Alma. I didn't know that was a name in English, white man name. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's up with his name. I was confused the whole family. Sorry, No, you're right, Harba said, who is she to judge? But I will judge on behalf of all of us. That's all judge. I sole my judging upon you. So yeah, Alma Earvill, They're all going to be judged. Alma. Earville's father experienced hallucinations all his life. He believed God talked to him, and God was the one who told him to go down to Gleana and spread the true word of the Lord and to Alma. These hallucinations they were real. They weren't science of like a mental health issue or neathing. You know, they were real because it made sense in their religion. Like they have a special little thing. Yeah, they have the what do they call it? The voice? Right, that's I think that's the name of it. Yeah, I was gonna say schizophrenia. I mean, to some it's that it's a mental health issue. But to others, they have a special connection with God and they can talk to God, and that's what makes them special. The moremonents. Yeah, and I mean to Alma, this all was like, this makes sense because they happened to our leader, Joseph Smith. And I mean, for those who don't know, Joseph Smith was the founder of the LDS Church. An angel told him to dig in this like one place, and then he found these two gold tablets. And these two gold tablets were what became the Book of Mormon. And Joseph continued to have visions, you know, for all his life, and in eighteen forty one, God instructed Joseph Smith to take a second wife. And he had to do it because God told them he didn't think about himself. It wasn't him, No, it was God. Even though this vision contradicted the writings of the Book of Mormon, it didn't stop Joeoseph. It was he had to do it. It was his sacred duty, you know. So yeah, he took a second wife, and then another or another, and then at some point the numbers not exactly know, but like I read twenty eight to fifty wives Jesus, and some of them, I don't know if it was more than one or just one. They were like fourteen and fifteen. Yeah, a lot of them were underage. And so the US government didn't agree with this. Also neither did another member of the church or what happened either, is itd his first wife? Yeah, that's true. There was a split in the church. Yeah, and that's what made a lot of Mormons move. And so in nineteen twenty three, Alma LeBaron was thirty seven and he had a vision. He was told to fulfill Joseph Smith's command and marry his eighteen year old housekeeper, Onnie Jones. And then when Alma's g I keep thinking he's a woman, Alma, Okay, anyway, sorry, when Alma's grandfather passed away, Alma had another vision. He saw his grandfather, grandfather. He was wearing a crown and he told Alma that he was the head of the Mormon Church and he was the inheritor, inheritor to Joseph Smith's mantle. So like his grandfather's ghost was telling him this, like, this is actually who I was. And so because that's who I was, the title is being passed on to you, Alma le Baron, And so Alma had no choice but to follow his sacred duty and follow the Ten Commandments and bringing back the practice of polygamy. He had to do it. His hands were tired. So then Alma told his family what he saw his vision the next morning, and his wife Maud, was shocked, but she agreed because I mean, this is a way, yeah, because she had she actually had to, she had no choice, literally, yeah. And so one joined the family and they then they were communicated from the church because you're not supposed to be polygamists anymore. So they stayed in the area for a little bit, but then they heard rumors of like a LeBaron lynching. People wanted to lynch him apparently. Oh, so then he took the two wives and their eight children and fled south to Mexico, where previous Mormons had fled before him. They arrived in Mexico in late nineteen twenty four. They settled in Colonia Aguades, which wasn't already existing Mormon community in Chihuawa. They thought they would be like a little more accepted here, but apparently people were like no longer really practicing polygamy in Colonia whuadas either they were just normal Mormons, monogamous Mormons, yes, yeah, and so they they were there, they were living their lives. Alma mod had their ninth child, which was rvil LeBaron not irvil irvll. He's come into the picture now. But yeah, like life wasn't easier in Colonia Quadres. The family was ostracized because they were polygamous. None of the other kids talked to them, the Labarian kids, because they were like, oh, they're weirdos. And it wasn't just because of their practices. They also were just known for being weird and bizarre and like they had erratic behavior and anger issues like all the kids. Well, anger is a learned behavior. Mm hmm, yeah it is. And mental health issues run in families, so yeah, yeah they do. It's funny you mentioned that because their fourth oldest daughter, Lucinda, started having hallucinations and like these hysteric episodes and that's what the note like the other article telling her like a hysteric woman, you know. But there were these episodes where she would just scream for hours and they started when she was seventeen. The family to like calm her down, and I say that in quotation marks to calm her down during these episodes. They were tire her ankles, like chain her ankles to like a shed or something like that. Wo. Yeah, terrible stuff. And she wasn't the only sibling who had these problems. Ben, the oldest son, he started hearing voices that told him he was God at twenty two and then he was hospitalized in an asylum in Arizona. But yeah, like all ten children had things like they were hearing voices, anger issues, things like that. And then like four of the seven boys in the Liberian family, they all claimed that they were Lord's prophet. They all had these same visions where they were the ones that were told this. But then Irville and this is all when they were like adults, right, But Rvill later claimed that he received the right to kill from God himself, Like he told them, like you can do this in a vision, elma dare lebron he LeBaron. I did it, my bad LeBaron. He would travel back and forth Mexico and the US, usually Mexico in like Utah and Arizona where there were more maone communities to work. He was like a painter, so he did that for work and By nineteen thirty nine, there were nineteen Lebaran kids, thirteen from Maud, his first wife, and then six from Oni, the second wife. The other children didn't, you know, talk to them, so they only had each other. And this was very true for Irville and his older brother by two years, Joel Irville. They were inseparable. Out of the two, Irville was the more handsome, smarter, taller, charismatic one and Joel was like the weird, quiet one who was also ugly. Apparently that's what the notes say, not me. I wrote the notes anyway, Oh crack with the up. Okay, so yes. People thought Irva was like smarter because he could speak for hours on the Book of Mormon and it sounded like he knew what he was talking about. It sounds like he memorized it, though, is it really being smart? Okay, god yeah? But then he would ramble for hours on this and like he would go from one thought to another, and people just thought he was too smart for them to follow. But really it was more like disorganized thoughts. Oh, like a mental health issue. Oh, like a symptom of schizophrenia. Yeah right right, And this organized thoughts asn't like when you talk like one thing is not connected to the other, like rambling, but like extreme. In nineteen forty, Joel was set to go on his mission. You know, Mormons go on their mission where they try to indoctrinate people when colonize and shit. So Joe refused to go on his mission unless Irvo could go with him, because again they were inseparable. So the two went and Irvill ended up being like one of the youngest missionaries ever because just this was in normal. So they traveled around Mexico for two years spreading the word of the Church, but really they were spreading their version of it, so they were spreading polygamy, the practice of polygamy. When they returned home, their father, Alma, was fed up with Colonia quadrees. He felt like he wasn't receiving his recognition as the true prophet of the church, which like nobody recognized him as obviously, but he did. So he packed up his family and they headed off north into the desert. They settled in the Sierra Madrem Mountain area and they had a ranch named Colonia le Baron or le Baron, I don't know. This was ninety forty five now, so not long after that, Alma got sick from lead poisoning because of his job as a painter. Apparently they still used lead and paint, so I guess yeah, because we're in like the ninety fifties forties. So he became fully paralyzed and he died in ninety fifty one. And right after his death, thirty eight year old Ben, the oldest son, tried to start his own church, but like all his mental issues, he just couldn't. He was randomly arrested in the middle of a street because he was doing push ups in the middle of traffic. What so he yeah, he was having a little crisis. Yeah, just a little one. And so he was arrested and then like placed into an asylum and he spent the next decade there. Wow, now he's like one brother's out of the picture. In the meantime, Joel and Arville were like, we're not with him, and they were trying to distance themselves from the church that he tried to start, and so they went and joined a different church. This one was led by Rulon al Read and this was an already established polygamous sect. Do you know the name Kerman? Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, another terrible man so he had these polygamous sex like sects. Sects, yeahs like sex like I can't, like, I don't have any means, but no, we're not but yeahs, oh my god, I can't, okay. So yeah, and these were in Utah, Arizona, and Colorado. And also he had also been born in Chihuahwa, Colonia. Dublan is where he was born and it's still there, but now it's just like a town with a small normal normal as normal as they can't be Mormon population. This was an actual like big church or cult whatever. There was almost a thousand members, I want to say, and they were you know, led by an elderly council like like the Mormon church, but they did polygamy. This is the FLDS right right, because they're not the same as the LDS. So so the brothers took leadership roles in this church, but by nineteen fifty five they were over it. They were like were too important for this or like they need their own thing. Yeah. Yeah. So then Joel announced he was the one who inherited the mantle of profit from his father, and this was nicely fifty five. They surprised a lot of people because They thought Irville would be the one to make this announcement because you know, he was more charismatic, he was better looking, he was taller. Thought Joel was better looking. Now it was Irville. Did I say it wrong? And yeah, I'm pretty sure you said it the other way. Did I pull the little dyslexia and switch my words? Mm hmm, okay, but now we get it straight. So so when you were saying that, I was trying to remember the Donkey series I watched and I was like, I don't remember them saying that about Irville. You were like, this sounds wrong, But now you're it makes more sense now, Okay, totally my bad. Yeah, it's supposed to be Irville is the hottie, okay, and that's by their standards. And I was like, I don't think so for you, not us, not us, okay. So so yeah, they thought it would be Earvil who would like try and take this role, but it wasn't. It was Joel. Earvil happily followed in his brother's leadership. They were thirty four to three two at this point in their lives. Joel traveled to Utah, where he had to register his church because there's paperwork apparently for this and like we're gonna be fts like blah blah blah. I don't know how does that work? Anyway, he named it the church. It was called the Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Time. Oh, they really just loved the Church of the First Born, like mm hmmmmm. Yeah. So the brothers would travel back and forth in the US and Mexico spreading the word of their church. Joel was the prophet and Irville was the patriarch. And so then they returned to Mexico to find non family members. They even like took followers from Rulan Alred. It's so hard for me to say that name because like rural. Sure, yes, that's why. That's why. Okay, now it makes sense. So yeah, they took followers from him to By the nineteen early nineteen sixties, they had five hundred members. And Irville was very flashy compared to Joel. He had like a really nice car, really expensive clothes, and Joel SSI drove like the old family truck that belonged to his father and was not flashy at all. Irville also avoided the hard work that had to be done at the ranch because it was a growing community all the time. They had to, like I don't know, farm and build things, you know. But he didn't do any of that. He was too good for it. Apparently what he did do was merry a lot of everyone and their mom. Yeah. So he told members that God told him that God had given him the right to decide who girls really because I started in like age sixteen, they decided like when or who someone was gonna marry. So he had this right. He was the one who decide this and like most of the time he decided himself very Uh, what's that guy's name, Jeff warrens of him or if Warren Jeff's I know we were talking about and it's something like that. I just can't remember exactly. It's one of the two, yeah, one of the two. So yeah, he started collecting more and more wives. Side the ages of the wives got younger and younger. Yeah, so, but yeah, I started getting younger and younger, Like he married a seventeen year old and then a thirteen year old. In nineteen sixty one, he started abusing the sister of the sex seventeen year old the younger sister who was twelve, and he used the Bible to justify the marriages to these young girls, you know, teens. He said that Virgin Mary was fourteen when she married Jesus Christ, and I mean, I guess this was good enough remembers Joseph. My bad when he didn't. It never says her age, right, or when she marries Joseph she's yeah, she's thirteen. I think she's anywhere from twelve to fourteen. Oh, my bad, I'm getting confused with it doesn't say her age when she gets pregnant by Je's with Jesus, right, Yeah, she's around the same age because she's marrying Joseph. It's happened almost at the same time. Yeah, it happens at the same time when she gets married to Joseph, she's pregnant with Jesus. Huh. I don't know why I thought it never outright said her age, but that people just assumed because of the practices of the time. But I think at the time, back then it was like it wasn't abnormal for young people died like at thirty, so at fourteen that was like half their life. I think that also depends what. I don't know if it's connected to to her menstruation, but it's anywhere from twelve to fourteen oh when she started. I've heard it very I think she was supposed to like be pregnant either before or right after she got married to Joseph, because he never touched her and she was already pregnant. See, I thought she got married because she was pregnant. I could have been that too, I think so. I think the angel came and said, Bam, baby, Jesus is in. You now find a husband. But I think they were already like it was already arranged, Like their marriage was already arranged. And that's why I like the angel is supposed to go to Joseph, and the Angel told Joseph, hey, like this ain't your baby, but this is God's baby, so protect her and the child. But I think they were already they were already arranged to be married. But I don't remember if she was pregnant before the marriage or like what. I wasn't sure of myself though, like I thought the Mormons just like original Mary meant a thing to them. It pretty much does it as far as I know, only the the Orthodox Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church. It's interesting because the Mormons have their own book, so but I guess they still use them doing yeah yeah, Also like Jesus also doesn't like mean anything to them, right, because that's their profit is like Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith, I don't know, I don't know, know, it's all weird. Yeah, Like I like, I'm pretty sure Joseph Smith is more important than Jesus and that and Madia they don't care about her either, So he was just like looking for any excuse that, don't say. They just look through the book and pool whatever fits what they want to do and twist it too, like they give it the interpretation because like like even when you read like theological texts, it's going to mean something different to everybody, Like to you it means something. To me, it means something different, and they use the same thing. But yeah, as far as I know, they don't have any devotion to Mary or as you said, maybe like it's questionable to Jesus. Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, so it's he's just using whatever he can to justify his pedophilia. Yeah, so yeah, he was a pedo. But also he had a habit of stealing wives. So just like Jeff Forren, or whatever his name is. Yeah, pretty much one of the two. Yeah. Yeah, the wife's stealing was the thing that started causing problems between the two brothers. Not the pedophilia. No, the wife's stealing. Well that's fine according to them. Yeah, Rville's childhood friend went on a trip back to the US from Mexico and then he returned to the colony. It wasn't even a long trip. I couldn't find the exact time, but it was a short trip. And then he took his wife. He was gone for the weekend and then I don't know how long it was, but it was not that long. He loved at six am and came back at six pm something something. So by the time making back, his wife had been divorced and was already married to Irville. Oh God, ohing go so that guy. He complained to Joel, who then declared that God gave him a vision that a woman had to wait six months after a divorce before remarrying. And then Irville was like, what the fuck, bro? So it was it was causing tensions between the two brothers. And yeah, this distension was growing between the two in nineteen sixty four, it was too much for Joel. Joel's like, I'm gonna go to Baja California. I'm going to start a new church, a new branch of our church in this place called Las Molinos. And I accidentally kept writing last Molinas, So if I didn't change it in my notes, No, it's Molinos. It sounds. Yeah, it's wrong, it sounds wrong, but that's what it said, last Molinos. That's hard. Feel like Molina's makes morcise, Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't roll off the tongue. So Las Molinos that's where he was going to establish this new branch of their church, and so he was starting to spend more time down there than in colonial le Baron and Irville Erville was not in charge, of course he was. So yes, Erville became obsessed with punishments described in the Old Testament. Yeah, he was preaching that it was their responsibility, the church's responsibility, to take up arms against their enemies, which included non believers and anyone who didn't recognize the liberons as like the prophets. So everyone, everybody, oh, the rest of the world got it. This started to scare members because that's not what they signed up for. Like Joel was peaceful, he was just like we're just gonna be polygamous over here. Whatever, Okay, we just want to have like ten wives. That's it. I didn't come to fight have ten wives. We're gonna let men abuse children. But other than that, it's fine. Yeah, but no, not rervil so rvil sermons started getting crazy, Like he started his sermons started lasting twenty four hours and people couldn't leave, so he would spend days a week, which is another symptom of schizophrenia. Also, just like the ability to talk for twenty four hours straight, that's not right. Damn. Yeah. And I also like want to share I guess now before we get deeper into this episode, like this man should have been diagnosed with schizophrenia, but he saw this as like a religious thing instead. And we're not like clowning on schizophrenia at all. It's a real thing. It's demonized in like the media, but like this man justified what he was doing through religion, and it's not that oh it's like another evil schizophrenic person. No, Like that's not what we're doing here. I'm just like we're pointing out that he should have been treated and like maybe all of this could have been prevented, right, but also not as because sophenic people have these violent tendencies. He was raised in this like very very religious, strict setting. There was already violence in the home from his father too, So just like all these things made him more violent. The fact that it continued to go untreated, it just gets worse. And like, yeah, we're like, you know, laughing and making jokes, but I don't want anyone to think, like, oh, we're laughing at schizophrenia, Like that's not at all. Yeah, but it also reminds me of genemic. Herdi in her book how she talks about because it's like a thing in Mormon, uh, the Mormon religion where they're literally taught that they each have a voice and a connection with God, and they the voice in their head is God talking to them. So it's like the inner monologue. I don't know what they call it. It's like I thought they call it like a voice, like an inner voice or goal something like that. But yeah, like the thought, like, yeah, they call it the inner voice. Yeah, and for like us, we have an inner monologue, but they're not like these random thoughts that come out of nowhere. Yeah. So then in her book, she has Uh, she has OCD. She's diagnosed with OCD, and so she had these like obsessive compulsive thoughts. But she like ever since she was little, but she thinks it's her voice with God, like her connection with God, and so she it takes her a long time to realize it's a mental health issue and to get the help that she needs to treat her mental health issue. And so like it's a common thing. Yes, okay, that makes sense because I was like inner monologues what but yeah, I was like, before we get any further, we should say that. But yeah, so let's go back to this where was Yeah, Irville was left in charge, he was getting more off the handle, more violent. His sermons started becoming violent themselves, Like he was talking about wars with their enemies, things that were not a thing before. He started carrying a pistol at all times. He started telling members that the US government and the Knights of Columbus were gonna come after them for practicing their religion. Things that just didn't make sense. Also, sorry, really quick, and there's like a huge thing with Mormons because of how they were, you know, pushed from one state to other because of Joseph's myth, mostly because he was a con man. Really, yeah, but they were pushed like from state to state. They weren't allowed, like and they were persecuted because you know, of the Polimans, certain whatever things. But now now they're not, you know, it's mainstream, but they have like a persecution complex because of their history. So like that's feeding into his thoughts. Also, yes, and I was gonna say, it doesn't help that paranoid thoughts that people are coming after you is another symptom, yeah to him, like all these things conflated within him. Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah again instead of seeing it, and even if they saw it and reccognize it as a sign of a as a symptom of something, they wouldn't get help because they don't believe in it either. Yeah. So Joel started hearing about what was going down in Colonia Levarone, and so he flew from Las Molinos and tried to tell everyone like, hey, don't listen to Irvil. I'm in charge, I'm the prophet where Rvil's preaching is like not, there's that's not our beliefs. But then he left again, and then Erville just kept preaching the same things, and he was like, also, Joe's a little bit like he's not strong enough to be the leader. That's why he came over here, set all this nonsense and left. But I'm here right like I'm the one that's here. So he just kept doing that. Tensions were growing between them also to and on top of that, Joel wanted to make loss last Last Molinos. He wanted to make less Molinos a farming community for newly converted members. Joel wanted to make it into a resort for Americans to make money because they needed that much smarter move Honestly, it's also like them not religious one though, that's true, that's true, And so Irville went as far as to like sneak gliat his name to the title and then not put Joel down. And so then he owned Las Molinos. That's going to be an issue Las Molinos. And this was like the last straw for Joel. He was like, Ervol's getting out of hand. He needs to be replaced as a patriarch. And in nineteen sixty nine he flew back to griinal Le Baron and he told Joel or he told Irville that he was being demoted and now their younger brother, Verlin would take over as patriarch. And yes it rhymes with erman damn. That was my thought. Mm hmmm, yeah, I mean these names. I don't know Irville, Verlin, I don't know. Joel is normal, other names. Joel is normal, Yeah, the only one. So yeah, erv I kept accidentally writing yeah. So Irville accepted his emotion graciously. Surprisingly, he even cried. The three brothers cried together. But this didn't last long. He returned to the members and he started making this list of or he already had a list of like who were God's enemies, and so now Joel was on that list. Whenever they started making a list. That's not good. No, no, But Joel had no idea that the list included him or the list existed, damning. Joel desire, clueless, doesn't know what's coming. He really doesn't. So by nineties, everyone Joel told Arville that he was going to be excommunicated because because since his emotion, Ervill kept trying to plan munities against Joel mutinies. Yeah, what did I say? I think you said communities. Thanks, Carmen. It's part of my contraction occasions. It is to correct me. Yeah, I can't read, so or write. Sometimes I switch words around, letters, inside words, numbers, you know. So yes, spice it up, you know, make it less bar make you think. You have to think about what she's saying. Now you have to guess. So yeah, he kept planning to overthrow Joel, which you can't do. You can stop, Okay, tell mom yo, wait, Mom's not helping. No, so Earthl didn't stop fucking Irvil. He's like, you're gonna excommunicate me. No, So instead he wrote back a letter that he received a vision from God he was the prophet, not just of course, and that Firstborn followers had to leave the church and join his church, the Church of the Firstborn of the Lamb of God. I'm telling you, they love the Church of the Firstborn. So only a few people left and joined the church. And this isn't like like Joel thought or not Joel Irvill Irvil thought everyone was gonna leave and join him. But no, that didn't happen. Only some people left, some people deflected, most people stayed with Joel. Some people fled back to the US. They were like, this isn't looking good. The brothers are fighting, Like what are they gonna do? It's getting more violent, so some people just completely that would have been the move. Yeah, So then Joel officially excommunicated Irvil, but this didn't mean anything to Irvil. He had already declared himself the prophet, right, So then Irville was like, you know what, Joel has committed treason against God. The punishment for treason his death. Ervill kept preaching that he was a prophet. He was going to be the one to set in order the House of God before the end of the world, because now things were getting apocalyptic they weren't before. So then he told his followers that the end of the world included a fight between him and a false prophet, and he never named the prophet, but it was obviously Joel. He was was a thing called before sub tweeting yeah yeah, oh yes, okay, so yeah, Joel was the false prophet, and that there was going to be a global religion that he was going to head on as the prophet. And that's that's the things he was telling everyone. He was also telling everyone, or I guess, training everyone to be part of this army that was gonna take on the world. I guess because they were everyone else was God's enemy. Right, so and Joel Joel needed to die so in August nineteen seventy two. Actually, maybe this is where I should end part one. I think so. I think so this is a good place to wrap up part one because this is basically the history of the cult. It gets us up to the point where the murdering starts. Okay, so yeah, I think it's a good place to wrap up. It gets it gets terrible. Yeah, it's gonna be bad in part two. Yikes. Okay, well, I guess before we go spooky recommendations? Does anyone have any I haven't done, like, read or watched anything spooky aside from reading the book Club book, which is the s see Oh my god not then that, which is yes, yes, Do you have any speaky recommendations? No, I don't. I have been rewatching the cartoon Avatar last Airbnger. Oh, I love that. I have to watch this. I'm teasing three already, and then that's that's it. Okay, Okay. I do have a recommendation because it's something that I worked on. There's a new Scary FM podcast. Scary of FM is venturing into true crime. This is the first true crime show on there it's called the murders. Oh, I feel like I said that weird because I was like, the same murders. It's called the murders. And yeah, once in a while I will research and write episodes. But then like Edwin, the host and former guests he's been on here, host of a bunch of scary podcasts, are all great. He'll like, you know, grab the script and just like perfect it and then you know, the episode is released. So the first one is about the machete murders, which happened in California in Yuba City, Yuba City area, and it's just gonna it's like the podcast is gonna be about like a series of murders. So like that was the machete murders, but then there's like other cases that are like the railroad railroad murders or like things like that. So that's the kind of stuff that it's gonna cover, and it's gonna be trying like through the lens of like how it affected the community, you know, making sure that victims are names and that they're important, and then like obviously not glimorizing serial killers because fuck that noise, and it's it's just like a straight narrow narrated podcast. No like opinions interjected for people that like prefer that not like us. But yeah, that's the podcast. I'm gonna put it in the show notes because I want people to listen, because I wrote it. I'll check it out. I'm just over here watching you guys eating my bread bull I knew you're reading. Damn you're dying. Christina is dying from a hiccup attack. Ho she survives. Thank you everyone for listening. And if you're dancing with one person at kinsingera no one else is dancing, you might be dancing with the ghost. Yes, say Spooky Bye Bye. Spooky Tales is hosted by Christina and MJ, produced and edited by Christina. 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