The Shapeshifter at the Border and the Murder of Ramon Casiano

Hi, this is Christina and Carmen, and this is another episode of a Spooky Tells a podcaster all things spooky, true crime Latin America related. And today is what I guess like a border episode. Oh okay, I was like, what you're taking? Sorry, I say this my brain. I'm so let me just tell you. I'm so tired today. So oh okay, we're in the same camp. I took my meds. I doubled them because I'm on my period, but they still have worn out. They work less when I'm on my period without them, I mean. Yeah, yeah, so I'm extra slow today and Carmen's dying, so that's just the vibes that we're bringing dying. Yeah. So yeah, where I found a border story. Unfortunately it's from the side of Border Patrol. Uck. Yeah, I hope they're haunted. And then the true crime case actually also ties into Border Patrol and our estia is unknown episode on Operation Web. Yeah. Wow, it's we have a theme going, the theme going FBP f tbp P. Yes, F not what I said F t b P oh though I only said f c B I did that first and then I added it. Okay, yeah, okay, okay, So should we get to the listener story or is this something else you want? Yeah? No, no, Just if you have a story that you want to send to the podcast, you can email a spooky toes at gmail dot com. You can submit it on Discord Discord fifty members deep so whoa Whoa. You can also message me on any of the socials just as pooky tees. That's where this one is from today. You can also call these spooky hotline that numbers in the show notes. A lot of ways to get it to us. So, yeah, let's hear the listener story. Cool. So this is from mister Fusion on ig Hey, Carmin and Christina. I wanted to submit this somewhat spooky story for y'all's awesome podcast. I've never been sensitive to the paranormal, despite being super interested in the subject. Before this story that I'm about to share with you happened, the most paranormal thing that had ever happened to me was feeling a cold spot. Anyway, my wife and I for the past few years visit my brother in law and his family during our Christmas break down in South Texas. My brother in law and his wife had four boys at the time, of this possible paranormal event. My brother in law and his wife are church going Christian people. My wife and I have not gone to church in many years, so I'm grateful that my brother in law and his wife are good people and still let us stay at their house and feed us when we visit. That's good. Yeah, I mean he said good Christian people, So yeah. Yeah. After a couple of years living in their current house, two of their boys started experiencing something touching, slash grabbing their legs while they slept. It only happened in a specific room, so they refused to sleep in that room. Turns out that was a room they would let us sleep in when we stay at their house. Damn, damn, I mean yeah, no one else is using it. Right after hearing that story, I did not experience anything paranormal until this one night we were staying there. I was sound asleep. I wake up for whatever reason and see what looks like a shadow person standing right next to the bed. At first, I thought that one of my nephews got in the room because the shadow was small and looked like a kid. They couldn't have even gone in the room, though, because I always locked the door room you sleep, even when I'm at my own house, so all of this is going through my mind. In a matter of seconds, I all of a sudden remember the stories and rub my eyes to make sure I'm actually seeing what I think I'm seeing. All of a sudden, the shadow kid slowly fades away and disappears. I lay there for a few minutes, stunned, trying to process this. Then I fell back asleep because I'm just way too sleep I mean, yeah, relatable. I tell my wife about what happened, and she was totally stunned. After that, we never really spoke about it. I don't remember telling my brother in law about this experience because I wasn't one hundred percent sure I saw what I think I saw. I never experienced anything like that since, and as far as I know, my nephew's never had any other occurrences either. After thinking about it, this was, in fact a ghost I saw. I thought maybe it was the ghost of a kid that would have mess my nephews because they wanted to play with them or something. I don't know, but I swear I saw something that night. You probably did, I feel like you did. Yeah, And then if you mentioned it, or talked about it. It made it more real, so you didn't say anything, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's scary though. You know though, at least it was like a one time thing. Yeah. Even then if you stopped seeing stuff, so that's good. Maybe it just wanted to be seen one time. The kid was just saying goodbye. Yeah, it was like passing through for a little bit and then he's like, all right, I'm out. I just want time to go, mister fusion to see me before one last person? Yeah, one last person. That's it. Damn, that's uh care people honestly, out of like ghost experiences, that's probably like the one you want. Like if I have to have a ghost experience, which I don't want to, and this is not a welcome to haunt me a message, but if I had to have a ghost experience, like that would have not been so bad, you know. Yeah, just oh is that is that when I'm sleepy? Yeah yeah, then you don't ever see it again, so yeah, not too bad. It could be worse, could be a lot worse. It could be a lot worse. Yeah yeah, okay, So should I get into my story now? I don't know I saything like that. I don't know mus story. It kind of remind me of that guy on TikTok who's like that that friend who keeps using weird vocabulary. And I was like, oh my god, it's me. Like when I kept saying I reckon and You're like, fucking stop, that was you. It was like months long she kept saying I reckon this, and I'm like, did this fuck it? Bitch? Just want terrry potter or what the fuck? Like what is this going on? She thinks she's taking English or some shit like who says I reckon? Like I don't know, I did it. Not Mexicans unless they're from British or Britain, Yeah, England. Have you come across the Britain Mexicans on? Yeah, that's why I added that. Yeah, they're really funny, so funny, just like they're like talking in the British accent and then the Spanish sounds normal and then right, so it's trippy, like obviously it's a thing, you know. Yeah, yeah, so it's just strange. Anyway, Why couldn't I end up there? I don't know what's worse. I don't know it's worse. I don't know, because it seems like the weather they brexit. Yeah, right, but there's castles over there. I really wanted to see a castle. Oh yeah, but I heard their feet sucks. But if you're Mexican. But the quality of the meat also matters, so whatever. Okay, No, it's like the ingredients that are not available, right, That's what I was like getting at with the meat, yeah, or the seasoning. Anyway, let's get into the story. I would rather be in California, true, true, No, I would rather be in California too. Yeah, we had to fuck off to Washington. I know, I'm ruined. It's so cold and wet here right now, and I just imagine we would never survive in England. You know what, I wonder if I'm also having some No, it's sad. When I've been sad, it was some sad season maybe time so tired because it's so darkic actually seasonal ass depression. It's like around three pm. Was like yeah, because yeah, it was like four thirty and it was already dark and it's been raining all day. It's not raining here yet. Okay, onto the story. So this is about a border patrol. So insert barth noises. This is from GETT to loose YouTube channel and it's in Spanish, so the video is cas migrants and one had been a border patrol officer for thirty years, most of that time was spent on the border between Arizona and Sonora in Mexico. Over the years, he felt that he had seen it all, tragedies and injustices that made him question humanity. But what took place toward the end of October nineteen ninety three made him almost quit. That morning started like they all did. They went to get their assignment and the route they were supposed to patrol. His route was in the straight up desert. He had come across thirsty and hungry people, and of course those that died trying to cross, trying to reach the American dream, something that felt like a lie and an allusion to him. I guess he was a real one. Join the club brother at Mano. He had seen all sorts of things, people at their lowest, people stealing someone's last bit of food, killing over it. But he understood it was such an unfortunate thing to lose your life in a place like this. Kwan and Alex, his partner, were talking about this when they saw women walking toward them This was not uncommon. Sometimes it was the last resort for a migrant they were out of food, water, and options. He always thought it was better to turn yourself in and to die. He and Alex always tried to help people and had extra food and water to give. Well, that's nice, one of the good ones. I mean, we'll take the bare minimum. The bare minimum in as was so much worse. It's like actively destroyed, literally destroying water bottles that organizations leave there and yeah, so yeahh no, it's true. So they thought they could help her too. The women's feet were full of blisters, her lips so chapped and burned. They helped her get into their vehicle when they saw a boy walking toward them, then another and a little girl, then a boy that looked about sixteen, who looked injured. When the teen reached Juan and Alex, they were horrified to see that his arm was just hanging there, or whatever remained of his arm. His abdomen was also very injured. They called for a medical evacuation because the sixteen year old looked terrible. The helicopter arrived fast, but then the teen had died. By them was too late, he had lost too much blood because of the condition they found the group, Alex and Huan like they needed to help. They found out later that the teen's arm seemed to have been pulled off. They thought maybe this was the work of a coyote who hurt them in order to steal their money. Little did they know it was so much worse. Both Alex and Juan were dads, and they felt like if this was their children, they would help them and they needed to do the same. They went to the social worker in charge of the kids. She told them also at this point the kids were like in some shelter. Shelter yeah. So they went to the social worker in charge of the kids and she told them that the kids had woke up screaming and crying that night. She said the kids spoke of monsters. Kuan wasn't shocked after the state they found these kids in, but still he thought this was a horrible coyote who had abandoned the group. But then the kids were able to say what happened. When they stopped to rest for the night, they were woken up by screams. The adults tried to protect the kids. It was chaos. People were running and dying. Something was attacking the group. Buheto tried leading them away to a safer location, but something snatched him away. Then the seventeen year old whoops. Then the seventeen year old tried to protect the youngest until whatever that thing was tried snatching him. He was able to escape because the koyota was able to shoot the thing just before he died. The thing then went after the koyote, giving the kids a chance to run. Quan couldn't believe what he was hearing. Was there really a group hunting migrants in the middle of the night. They were put on overtime. After that, Quan and Alex had the night shift, and on their second shift they saw this thing for themselves. They were radioed that someone was running toward them from the north. When they saw the group, they could tell the group was running from something. Then they saw a border patrol unit behind them, but they weren't the ones chasing the group. The unit seemed to be firing behind them like they were covering the running group. When Juan and Alex reached the group and the other unit, they found out what was going on. The other officer told that some kind of animal had attacked this group. He fired at it, but it seemed to get more angry. The animal started attacking them, but it ran away when it saw Quan and Alex's vehicle approaching. They processed the group and went to a nearby bar together. They were all shaking up. They were talking about what happened the night when a Navajo police officer approached them. He overheard the conversation and asked if they could please describe this thing, this animal, in detail. The officer chugged his beer, asked for another, and then chugged that one. I would have too. Right then. He said it could have been some kind of wolf, but longer, and there were three of them, but only one was attacking them. The other two seemed to only try to chase the migrants away. The other two hid when he and his partner arrived. The third one didn't run away. It wasn't scared. They fired, but bullets didn't hurt. It sounds scary, yeah, can you. I can just picture all this, and I know that's why I was so scared because I was picturing it. It sounds like what like a movie? Oh, I thought you're gonna say what it was? Okay? Oh, do you not have any ideas, yeah, or you just gonna keep it? No way to end? Okay. These things look like a mix between a man and a wolf, like a war wolf from the movies, but it also seemed dead and smelled rotten. There seemed to be rotten flesh hanging on it. Its eyes were white. It growled at times, but other times it could imitate their voices. Ew, can I guess what you do? I'll keep going okay. His partner unloaded his whole clip, but it didn't FaZe the creature. It tried to rip their car door open. That's when they told the group to run. They would try and hold the thing off. They saw at least two fall and not get back up from the group, and the officer was shaking when he finished his story as what I I'm shaking. I'm shaking right now. My knees are buckling in falling from my chair. Okay. The Navajo officer went back to his friends, while Juan and Alex and the rest sat scared. They had not heard a story like this. The other officer broke the silence by asking the rest of them if they thought it was a nawan and if they had heard of Nowhalla's in Arizona. The Navajo officer shook his head. I thought, I thought the Navajo officer left. Oh he came back. I guess I don't know. Okay, Well, anyway, he never actually left. He turned around and he was right next to them. Yeah. Yeah, so he was still overhearing. I would be overhearing the whole conversation, so too, like this sounds good, let me Yeah. So the Navajo officer shook his head and told them a name none of them had heard before. He said, this was a similar being a shape shifter, only it didn't turn into common animals like pigs, dogs, donkeys, or goats. This was un Cambia Pieles, a skin walker. It didn't fear anyone. That was what I was guessing. Yeah. Yeah. At first I was like, oh, that's a nawhal And then they disc I've been more detailed, like the rotting and flesh, and then I was like, oh no, it made me. The reason I thought of it was because it's kind of like in Bad Cree how they described the window. Go oh, yeah, and you've read that. I still need to read it to Bad Kree. Probably the best book I've read all year. Oh okay ye, I need to read it. And this one was even more sinister. It seemed to like to kill and eat people. It had to have sacrificed a family member to become this powerful. The only way to stop it was for someone it knew to call its real name. There was no other way to heard it. That's so scary, like, how do you know? How do you find someone knows it? Ooh? They drank in silence after that, Juan went home wondering who could actually know such an evil creature. On their next night shift, they felt so defeated. Then they heard screaming and drove as fast as they could, but by the time they got there, no one was alive. This kept happening over the next week. The officers that had shot at it turned up dead too. When Quana and Alex arrived at the scene, it was a mess. Quanna threw up. They couldn't even recognize the other officers. It ended up being a closed casket funeral, and the whole squad was afraid. After that, they were under instructions to protect themselves first, then rescue migrants. So creature was on the loose and they were in its hunting grounds. It's like messing with them. Yeah, like I feel like it knew them by that point, and yeah, yeah, by name. Probably. On the night of November eighth, nineteen ninety three, they received a call from Outposts four. It was about the christ of a boy. They were half a mile away and it was vital to reach him before he froze to death. The knights in the desert were cold. Luckily, Quanta and Alex found him. Oh, I thought it was a fake boy. Who oh, no, this is a real boy. Something that's good, better than the alternative. Yeah, the boy was terrified. It turns out he was not a migrant. He was a student. His class had been on the way back from a train to Monument Valley. Now they had to find the bus. Their only clue was that the bus was on the way to the city and had overturned while making it left. No one was hurt from the crash, but when the bus driver and one of the teachers jumped down to check on the bus, they didn't return. The kids could hear weird noises outside. One of the other teachers decided to take the rest of the kids to play. Buy some giant rocks. That's some jeepers. Creepers. Shit, that's what made me think back inside the bus, why would they leave the bus right? So yeah, one of the other teachers decided to take the rest of the kids to play by some giant rocks. But this boy hit in the bus. He then heard screaming and crying, and that's how God led screaming for help. Oh Man, Alex and Kuana called for backup whoever could come, including local police and the Navaja police. They desperately searched and searched. It seemed hopeless until they came across the bus. They continued to search until they heard Alex scream there were about twenty five kids, all dead. They had been attacked by the creature. But the boys said there were forty kids, not twenty five. Then two actual coyotes, not kayotas. Yes the animal, not the yes. Employ your employee, not the job. Then two actual coyotes came out of the shadows. The officers were ready to fire at them, but the Navajo officer told them to stop. He approached the coyotes and, to everyone's surprised, they could talk. The Navajo officer came back to the group and told them the creature was their son. They had been trying to stop him, but their son told them he couldn't, that no one respected the old ways and he needed to stop them. The pair said they would help, as only they knew the creature's real name. They searched for it together, shooting at it when they found it, and like before, nothing was able to hurt it, not until the pair of coyotes turned into an old couple and began calling the creature's real name. They called and called until the bullets were able to hurt the creature. Officers kept firing until the creature was gone. There was nothing but a pile of ashes. It was over. Alex and Juan had no idea how to even begin to write this report, but the Navajo officers did they would take care of it. This happened early in Juan's career. He knows it sounds unbelievable, but even thirty years later, recounting the events of the night shakes him to his core. Wow wow, wow, man, intents, that was intense. Also in Bad Crey, the windigo like feeds off of, like the trauma and hurt of all the people that it basically takes over. So I don't know, it's like a different depiction. Yeah. Interesting, Okay, I really have to read that, Yeah you do. I was holding my breath to that story. It's why I didn't interrupt as much. Yeah, I will say when I was looking up like Windigo stuff, I did see that. I mean, the story is already out there, so I don't think it's a huge deal, but I did see that a lot of I think because Windigoes are not like a belief in all Native American cultures, right, but in the one that do believe in the Windygo, they kind of don't like other non Indigenous people talking about the Windygo because it's always depicted as something evil, you know what I mean. But I mean the story is out there, so yeah, like the some people have asked us to cover because it's like a lot along the border, this legend is told, but it's like, I don't feel like it's my place. We're not telling the legend. Yeah, yeah, it's like telling a story of a Mexican American Border Patrol agent who experienced this allegedly, right because it was sent into that other channel. But my point in all this is like, just like Nawilas themselves in like those stories, there's like good ones and bad ones. You know, it's like up to the individual person that's doing this thing, but it's something that has been so twisted and misconstrued and changed, and so yeah, I personally would never be like, well, the legend of the skin wall, like you know, but the story I felt like we could share because I guess I just wanted to throw that out there. Oh no, yeah, I mean too. And then another thing I was gonna say, since we're doing this right now already, the person that wrote the story that experienced it, that's the term he used. I think a lot of people don't use navajo. They use like DNA. Now yeah, yeah, but you know, we we've just translated it the way it was in English. It's like in American English they called them navajo, but they were for tool and I think actually that came from the Spanish and the original term means like poors thief. Yeah, it's like not good, no, right, so but like we know it's d NE right or people will say DNA, which isn't I guess in English if you're saying it. But yeah, like you know, just wanted to say that too. But that's like a little like mini reign of terror, just like terrorizing the I mean it was scary at once, just kind of like I would I would have quit that night, that first night, like oh yeah, oh man, Okay, So I guess we'll take a little ad break here. It's the holiday season and this is a very stressful time of the year. But you know one thing that's not stressful for me this time of year right now, cooking? Why is that thanks to HelloFresh. HelloFresh makes me a time nearly hustle free with delicious, home delivered, chef crafted recipes that come together quick and are less expensive than takeout. Because let me tell you that was an issue for me. I relate too. Yeah, as we all know, I have issues. No, but I would like sit around trying to think of what to eat and I couldn't decide ever because you know what, there's so much steps to the except diners. 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You can get ten free meals at HelloFresh dot com slash free A Spooky applied across seven boxes new subscribers only. It varies by plan. That's ten Hello fresh meals. Just go to HelloFresh dot com slash free A Spooky and we're back. We're just gonna jump right into my part. On March third, nineteen thirty one, two teens in Laredo, Texas cross paths in a way that changed their lives forever. One was largely forgotten and the other lived a full life and then went on to head the US Board Patrol and the National Rival Association. Oh my god. Yeah, I'm sharing the murder of Ramon Gaciano. And if you listened to our history podcast, it's a known We literally talked a little bit about this yesterday. This is just in more detail because yeah, we touched on it briefly on the you know, Operation Wetback episode. So on March third, Harlan B. Carter got home from school and saw that his mom, Ila Carter was in distress. She was scared and nervous because she saw a group of Mexicans near their property. And yeah, it's safe to youla, Yeah, it's safe to assume that she was racist. I mean, this is nineteen thirty one and she's scared because Mexicans walked by her house. Her house, stupid. And it didn't help that three weeks before this, the Carter family car had been stolen. That could have been anyone, Yeah, that could have been anyone. But she told Harlan that she thought the Mexicans had something to do with it, and Papa Carter wouldn't be home for another hour, Papa Carter. Yeah, Carter Senior wouldn't be home for another hour. He worked long hours as a border patrol officer. Wow, like Papa Eissan. Yeah. So side note, Papa Carter did believe I don't know his first name. I did write. Okay, what's so what about Bat Carter? Papa? Sorry, Papa. So they left a small town, Grandberry, Texas, very white, tiny, little world town. They left that for Laredo, Texas, on the border, highly large Mexican population. This was at this time, very not that long ago Mexico still right, right, that could explain all the Mexicans they were here. Yeah, but he moved to this town as a word patrol agent, believing that Laredo needed a full scale house cleaning because there were too many Mexicans there. There's too many Mexicans somewhere where it was Mexico before. Okay, okay, So it's like the quote unquote expats moving to Sinaloa or Latinaoa is tandangerous or was it? I think so? I think it was a Capulco where getting married the bandas at the beach. Yeah, like, how are you going to move somewhere with Mexicans and the Mexicans. Yeah, users literal same energy. Okay, so back to this. Oh and of course, like you know, children take on the beliefs of their parents most of the time, not all of them, but Harlan Carter did, so he had the same animosity towards Mexicans in a largely Mexican town that was Mexico, right right, we'll keep saying. Anyway, knowing that his dad would to be home for hours, Harlan Carter felt like he needed to take care of this himself and help his mom, and so he told his mom he was going to go see if he could get them to come talk to her to clear this up, like to see if they did steal the family car or not, which is already who would admit to that anyway. Yeah, I will say though, in Oakland when we were babies, the van got stolen. Oh yeah, and our dad went looking around and he found the kids had taken it cruising around and he was like, oh, we just they just literally said, oh, yeah, we have your van. We dumped out the baby seats, they're like back there and they returned the van. That sure they didn't do that. So I guess I could work, so some people might anyway, So he was gonna His plan was to force them to return to their house to question them, which is already odd anyway, So he grabbed his shotgun and headed out. He found the Mexican teens over by the nearby swimming hole. The youngest was twelve, and then the oldest was fifteen year old Ramon, and so Harlan confronted them, accusing them of stealing the car. Ramon, being the oldest, did all the talking and he's like, no, we don't know anything about that. That wasn't us. Harlan demanded that they come back to the property with him. When the boys asked why, why why would we go with you? Yeah, he didn't say Harlan curR didn't say. So that's when Ramon told him, Hello, we won't go to your house and you can't make us. And then Harlan and Dramon started swearing at each other. Ramon pulled out his knife, which I don't blame him for. Like, I mean, here's someone threatening you, are trying to like force you to do something. Yeah, who came out of nowhere? Disrupted you swimming? Yeah? Like to me, that is self defense, not Harlan coming up to them. Legally, it's not self defense yet. No, but I see what you're saying, right right, But certainly Harlan confronts of the boys is not self defense. It'll come back anyway, Okay, yeah, I mean no, that's starting though something. Yeah, you're starting. You're literally starting to fight at that point, right anyway, So he pulled out his knife and asked Harlan if he wanted a fight, which, yeah, like clear the error between the both of you without anyone I was jumping in. I shouldn't. He shouldn't have pulled out the knife. But that doesn't warning like someone shooting at you. So no, of course not so. Then Harln lifted his gun and pointed it like touching Ramon's chest. Ramon told him calmly, don't do it and pushed the shotgun to the side, so still keeping his cool. Then Harlan took a step back and laughed and then said you think I won't do it, And then he lifted his shotgun again and pointed it at Ramon's chest and fired wow, and Dramon fell to the ground almost instantly died. There was a two inch wound in his chest. Well, he was so close to him. Yeah. Wow. And surprisingly for the time, Harlan was arrested and he went to trial. Dramon's twelve year old friend sal was the one who testified, and that's why we know what happened that day. That's his testimony of what happened. And Harlan's lawyers tried saying that he fired in self defense. But he went over there, he went over there and he picked a fight. Yeah, and Ramon he hadn't tried to stab him. He was just holding the knife. Yeah, and he even like moved the gun over and told him, like, don't do this. Yeah, and so yeah, they said Ramon was holding the knife in his right hand and that Harlan only meant to shoot him in the right arm to disable him. But Sadabad's testimony said otherwise, because Ramon had been holding the knife in his left hand and Harlan never even aimed at anything but Ramon's chest. He wrote that he was holding in his right hand. Ummm no, no, no. The Harlan's defense said that it was in his right hand, but Salvador said it within his left. Oh god, I got it. My bad, my bad. Yeah. So yeah, it's clearly not self defense, even the way that his lawyers were trying to spin it. No. Yeah, after ninety hours of deliberation, the jury found seventeen year old Harlan Carter guilty for the murder of Ramon. Wow, I mean, I I'm guilty. Yeah. So they took their time debating, Yeah, you know, ninety hours. But yeah, I'm very surprised because this is nineteen thirty one. This is at a time in Texas where they were literally like lyning Mexicans. Yeah, left and right. I mean the Texas Rangers were going through and massacred. That's actually on my topic list that pot of been need massacre anyway. So yeah, guilty of murder without malice afterthought was the charge, and because of his age, he was sentenced to three years in prison. But on December twenty third, nineteen thirty one, Harlan's lawyers appealed, citing that the judge failed to submit to the jury the appropriate instructions upon the law of self defense. Does that make sense? Say that again? Okay, So basically they're saying that the judge failed to explain the law of self defense to the Turth jury. And the issuald had been explained what the law of self defense is, got it? Got it? And because they didn't know what that law was, that's why they found him guilty. Right, although like in any sense, I don't I still don't think it self defense, it's not really because he wasn't being at, didn't try to stab him. Yeah. So yeah, like I feel like at that point it could have been de escalated still and he chose to just start shooting. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. So the appeal was successful and Harlan Carter only served two years of his three year sentence. There was never any evidence linking the three Mexican boys to the Carter's Carter family stolen car. That's the thing, Like if he hadn't gone in just assumed these Mexican kids that had nothing to do with that, probably if he hadn't just assumed they did that, like this would have never happened, exactly exactly. So he still went out looking for a fight over something that he couldn't even like, didn't even know something that was unproven. Yeah yeah, you don't mean like he was just making racist assumptions assuming it was them. Yeah, just like his mom and her son and his daddy, the lot of them, death, death to them all, like winding. No. But yeah, that is all that's known about Ramon that when he was fifteen he was killed by seventeen year old Harlan Carter. There's no record of you know, who his parents were, what he liked for the aspire to be. There's not even a picture of him. My god, that's so sad. Yeah, but we know who the fuck is murderer is of course. Yeah, Harlan Carter was able to enroll at the University of Texas after his release, uh then the Emory University School of Law. And he was not done terrorizing Mexicans because in nineteen thirty six he got a job with his daddy at Border Patrol, a NEPO baby Border Patrol Nebo baby, a NEPO Border Patrol agent, yep wow, and he rose through the ranks. He was in charge of Border Patrol from nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty seven. And like we said in our Operation Wetback episode, he actually proposed the plan Operation Cloud Bursts, which was the predecessor to Operation Wetback, which we go into detail ani Storia as a known our history podcast, but basically This was the mass deportation of Mexicans and Mexican citizen Mexican Americans, and it was bad. And this man who murdered a fifteen year old Mexican for no reason goes behind it all. And then many, many, many, many Mexicans and Mexican American Mexican Americans went on to die as a result from operation went back. Yeah, so fuck this man who would have never even created this had he not been placed or rose through the ranks because of never to Like, what do you have, you mediocre man? You would be nothing without an epotism. Yeah, because, yeah, his dad got him a job at Bard Patrol because he was a border patrol agent. And then Harlan Carter also joined the National Board of the NRA in nineteen fifty one and he rose through those rinks too. How much he became. Can this man do? And you know, for real, he's not done because uh he was a president only from nineteen sixty five to nineteen sixty seven of the NRA, but then he became the director of the lobbying arm of the NRA. Thank you for the mass shooting, sir. He is literally the reason that the NRA is the way it is today because fucking back way back when it was uh, it was just like cool. Yeah, it was a little more normal. It was just to teach gun safety. Yeah, this man changed it. Yeah, ruined our lives. Yeah, in all of America. All. Yeah. He had been a card carrying member of the NRA since age sixteen, a year before killing Dramon Gaziano. Oh my god. And then he would end up becoming the executive vice president until nineteen eighty five. He earned the nickname bullet Heead disgusting, disgusting, Yeah, and pushed the NRA into the organization that it is today, a true believer in zero gun legislation, my guns, and he essentially coined the term guns don't kill people. People kill people, which yeah he knows about because he killed someone, right, Yeah, guns don't kill people. Harlan kills people. Harlan kills Mexicans, yes, yes, yeah. When the Laredo Times broke the story of the murder, which was unknown at that point, Harlan denied all of it. He tried to say it wasn't him. He's like, no, no, no, that Harlan was spelled with an A. I'm Harlan with an Oh, that's not me. But he changed the way, he changed his spelling purpose Yeah, after his release and a very in a very brock Turner manner. Wow wow wow wow. But then he would go on to tell the New York Times that he had nothing to hide and he wasn't going to rehash anything that was already over or anything that didn't have to do with the NRA because also side note, during this time, he was on trial for possibly stealing a bunch of ammunition from Border Patrol after he retired for personal use. I believe it, oh, one hundred percent, and it has everything to do with it, Like you were trigger happy then you killed an innocent teenager and you're still trigger happy now. And he stole emmo from the Border Patrol. You were only there because of your daddy, yes, and his Border Patrol buddies he placed on the board of RA of course, more nepotism. Wow. Then it just became impossible to deny that he was the same heart living carter that murder Dramon Gatiano. And so then he said, I continue to regret the incident deeply, as would anyone where a fatality is involved, very such a passive way, like a fatal fatality is involved. Not I cause a fatality. I killed someone. No where there was someone died happened, Yeah, a murder happened. Mm hmm. The gun was shot whatever the word is trigger A gun was somehow fired, fired, and someone died. And I regret that. No one knows. Yeah, it was my fault. What a non apology. Yeah, I'm sorry you feel that way. That about the way that I killed someone, bitch. Please. And So while Dramone's life was taken ended, Harlan changed the way the NRA functions. He changed the way Border Patrol operates. It operates now ruined all of our lives. Yeah, he got married, He had two sons who also went on to join Border Patrol. Boutism generational. Yeah. And when he died in nineteen ninety one, he was called, what are the NRA's most fierce warriors? Fuck you the Barbetual and the NRA and your sons and your mom and your dad. Wow. And there's actually I didn't know this. I was trying to find more information about Ramon Gaciano and basically my sources, I'll try to remember to link them. I put them in my notes so that I can just copy and paste them. But all my sources basically just say, sadly, we know nothing about Ramon Giano, but we know everything about fucking Harlan Carter. Wow. But there's a song named Ramon Gaciano. It came out in twenty sixteen by the Drive By Truckers. I don't know who they were, but let me read you some of the lyrics. Okay, wait before are you read the lyrics? Like? What is is this country? It's this rock? What is this? Oh? Yeah, like a folksy song? Like yeah, like a rock. I'll tell let me read you really quick because I didn't write down Drive By Truckers. Okay, let's see the Drive By Truckers are an American rock band based in Athens, Georgia. They have roots in Richmond, Virginia. Let's say musical style. Oh, they rock and roll, southern rock, country punk rock, cowpunk, pop, punk, blues, soul, southern soul. What are you doing? I just wanted to listen because I can't picture it with you to play. It took too long. It's taking too long to start. It's starting now. Sounds kind of country. Yeah, how much of it are you going to? I was gonna say one of the comments, has goodness, gracious a toe tapper? There ever was one? Oh my god, weird saying that, goodness gracious a toe tapper? There ever was one. I love that. But here's some of the lyrics. It all started with the border and that's still where it is today. Someone killed Ramon Casiano and the killer got away. He became a border agent and supplemented what he made with creative deportation and missing AMMO. By the case, the killing has been the bullets business since since back in nineteen thirty one killed Ramon and Ramon still ain't dead enough. Damn deep some of the comments behind the bastwards anyone, Oh yeah, I mentioned it and on its side doesn't know that they did a two part uh two parter on Harlan Carter. But I just wanted to cover the murder of Ramin Casiano by Harlan Carter. But yeah, I was like, damn, that's a nice song, like it's just some good white people. Yeah yeah, coming to the defense of Ramon, Like I didn't know the song consisted, but like now a bunch of people know who Ramon Gian was because listen to this band already, so I was like, that's beautiful. So yeah, that that was the case. What an Infury reading story, very very but I wanted to make it all related to uh the Carbon and Christina podcast universe. So he saw as a known operation. Went back, Hardy Carter. We need to show a name for them. But yeah, yeah we did. We don't need to think of it right now. But no, no, we won't. We don't know right now. But yeah, I guess it's like a little break here. Then we'll come back with spooky recommendations and we're back. So should I start with mine? Or did you find yours? Well? I found it, but I don't remember. Did I already talk about how to sell one hundred house? Or no? No, you have it? Oh okay, anyway, five out of five. I just this is my I think it's only the second Grady Hendrick. That's his name, Hendrix, right, Grady Hendrix. Yeah. I think it's only the second book. I listened to the audiobook and I think it's the only second one, Only the second one I've listened of his. I can't talk it more. Their second Grady book, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the first one I read. I think I mentioned it. Probably it was The Southern Book Club's Guide to Slain Vampire. Oh, I still haven't read that. I loved it. I loved it. A lot of people complain because they're like, the name is misleading because there's only one vampirement it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because they need to learn how to slay a vampire. It doesn't matter. It was good because it's not Okay, the vampire. Yes, it's about the vampire, but it's about so much more than that. It's about the women, and it's about the trends you made along the way. Yeah, okay, And there's the thing I love more than like, yes, I love the paranormal, but I love it to be like wayzier than that. I love it to be about their relationships, right, yeah, the complexities of that. So I'm all about that. And how to Stell a Hunted House was very similar. And I saw also someone complaining about the name. Oh, they should have named it something about puppets, Like who fucking cares. It's still a hunted house, stop, but there's still involved. What's a word so heard? It's weird about it. There's like a fancy word I'm looking for, like fatitious, but I'm no, that's facetious. Facetious. Maybe I guess this's wrong. Still, I don't know. No, that's how you say. Didn't they just say what you said? But doesn't it sound weird? But she kept saying it that's wrong. No, you can't say it wrong. Okay, whatever that word, that's how I felt. My masters didn't teach me how to say that word. Okay, like dense? Stop being so yeah? Yeah, but uh, there's nothing to love I more, nothing I love more about like reading about much kim flipping the words. Isn't there a disability for that verbal dysplex? Yeah? I don't know, because that's what I'm doing with my words right now. Okay, I do with numbers. There's nothing I love more than I just that's wrong. Yeah, thank you. Uh, family dysfunction. This has sibling rivalry, generational trauma. I love with the Haunted house and evil puppet. You know what's not to love? I really if I had five out of five? How exciting? Okay, Yeah, I gotta check it out and then I guess since I already have it open. I also I started a series and listened to the first two, but I only have notes on the first one. So I'm just gonna talk about that one. But I listened to the ex Hex Bye. I want to say her name is Ernine Erlin. No, I just look at it because I'm not saying it right erin Aaron Starling or something like that. So this is like a series about witches, and the first one is about nine years ago. Vivian Jones nurse to broken Heart like any young witch would, vodka, weepy music, bubble bats, and occurs on the Horrible Boyfriend. Sure, Vivi knows that she knows she shouldn't use her magic this way, but with only an orchard hay ride scented candle on hand, she isn't worried that it'll cause him anything more than a bad hair day or two. That is until Reese Penhallo, descendant of the towns and ancestors, breaker of hearts and annoyingly justice gorgeous as he always as, returns to Graves Glen, Georgia. What should be a quick trip to recharge the town's and lay lines and making appearance at the annual Fall Festival, turns disasterbly wrong, with one calamity after another, Striking Rees, viv realizes her silly little x Hex may not have been so harmless after all. Suddenly Graves Glenn is under attack from murderous wind up toys, a piste off ghost, and a talking cat with some interesting things to say. Wavy and Reese have to ignore their off the charts chemistry to work together to save the town and find a way to break up curse before it's too late. So, which is a fine little listen. The next one is also a fine little listen, And have the third one on hold at the library. That sounds fun? Yeah, it was fun, and who doesn't. It reminds me of like the Brain of the teenage, which but like funnier like yeah, start like more more romcom. Yeah, yeah, that sounds fun. Yeah, I'll have to check it out if I remember. I completely forgot. Carmen actually reminded me that I read. I actually read a book, Like I didn't listen to it and you never shared about it. Yeah, and I forgot to talk. I need to remember to write that down for my next one. Actually, but go on, okay, okay, So I read The Devil in Silver by Vixer Laval and I have to say fun, creepy. I love his books. Well, I've only read one, but this is the only one I've read. The Ballad of Something Tom has been on my list for forever when we get the synopsis. So here's a synopsis. Pepper is a rambunctious big man, minor league, trouble maker, working class hero in his own mind and suddenly the surprise inmates of a budget strapped the mental institution in Queens, New York. He's not mentally ill, but that doesn't seem to matter. He's accused of a crime he can't quite square with his memory and the darkness of his room. On his first night, he's visited by a terrifying creature with the body of an old man and the head of a bison. Oh my God, nearly kills him before being hustled away by the hospital staff. Wow snow delusion. The other patients confirm that a hungry devil roams the hallways. When the sun goes down, Pepper rallies three other inmates in a plot to fight back. Dorry, an octagenarian schizophrenic who's been on the ward for decades and knows all of its secrets. Coffee in African immigrant with severe OCD who tries desperately to send alarms to the outside world. And Lucci, a bipolar teen girl who acts as the group's enforcer. She's badass, battling the pill pushing staff one another and their own minds. They tried to kill the monster that's stuck in them, but can the devil die? And yeah, it was so good. There is one part that kind of seems a little unnecessary to me that I'm like, why is the supid in here? I don't care about this, But it was like the romance part of the book, So that kind of tells more about me. I love a little romance. I was just I wanted more of the devil. I just wanted to string No, just in this instance. That's so funny because like in other books, like Vampires, the romance was like but it was like I guess, it was like a major thing, not like just a little. Yeah, it was throughout the whole book. From the beginning. Here Pepper goes in here, he meets these people, they rally a plan, it goes wrong, then they stop, they stop all talking to each other and he meets someone else. And then in that in the middle of that, when their plan goes wrong, he meets someone else and then it's only like a book time or not, like for Pepper, it's not a long time, but they fall in love. They and it's cute. But I'm like, I skip this. I want to see what happens to the devil, like to the devil when they come front him again, and really it's like, yeah, the Devil's creepy and like why is he there? What's going on? But also just the horrors of the mental institution itself and what they do to the patients there. Uh, that's also so creepy, and just the state that it's in. It's just who doesn't love an asylum, like a hunted asylum? You know. That's specifically why I found the book because I was looking for like something that took place in an asylum, and I found out that this book is being adapted into TV. It's gonna be season three of The Terror. And I actually don't know if I talked about The Terror before. I don't think so. Season one of The Terror amazing. It's set in the winter, like it seems like colonial times. The French are like trying to get somewhere and they can come up like to this like very snowy area and then there's zombies. Oh, and it's just like a good winter. I think, watch wait what is it on Hulu? And also I am seeing it but haven't watched it, you know what I mean? M hm, Yeah, it's like it starts a little slow, but like it's necessary. It's like it adds to like I think I started watching it and then I never finished, are you? Yeah? I don't think you do well with slow things sometimes sometimes not ually not Yeah, but man, it's like a good like atmospheric like because you know, it's like it's the snow, and like just if someone is hurt and starts bleeding out in the snow is just so evident it's white and then suddenly pull a red you know. So The Terror is super good. Season two is not as good at all. I don't even remember what it's about. But The Terror is based on a book. It's also and so Seizing one of it, and so season three is also going to be based on this book. And oh god, what is his name? Dan Stevens, who I've talked about before and how much I love him. Okay, so not looking at what Oh my god, we've already I've already shown you pictures off. I know went that's what I'm saying. You don't think I don't remember. I don't know what it looks like. I'm just assuming you're okay. Anyway, he is going to star, so I'm guessing he's Pepper. Oh, he's gonna be Pepper. I think if that just makes it think of New Girl, Detective Pepper or whatever, Pepper. It's not Pepper that sounded so, Yeah, you're right. I thought of that too. I don't remember his name, his full name Jack Pepper. I don't know. I think so John Pepper. I think it's Jack Jack anyway, So I'm very excited for that. I don't know when it's coming out, but it's gonna be good. Dan Stevens. Even if you don't care that, if you don't think he's not, if you don't find him attractive like I do, I'm he's still an amazing actor, like he brings it to any role. There's already there's another show called Legion that he's in, and for part of the show they're in an asylum. Also, I'll be Aubrey plause Us in Legion. Yeah, that's also. Uh, I've only seen the first season, but it was really good. But yeah, I'm excited for this because yeah, the book was amazing and I'm sure I feel like the show is probably gonna be good too. So yeah, those are my speaking recommendations. We can be done. I'm just looking them up. Oh you're looking at him up? Okay, Well I don't remember him and when I talked about uh Abigail the movie, Oh, because he's an Abigail. No, he's not bad looking. His eyes are just very creepy, but that's expected. Yeah, yeah, it adds to the whole, like when he's a bad guy in Oh I can imagine, yes, and very like Abigail. Which. Actually, we're going to talk about our favorite vampire media at some point for Patreon. That's right. I needn't tell that it was fun anyway. Okay, so just to reminder that if you join Patreon, you can hear us talk about a lot of things. Our favorite zombie media is. When we just did that was almost two hour song form. We read fun. It was so fun. I had such a great time. Nor really, we just read Reddit stories to each other that are creepy and react to them, which is kind of fun. You also have paranormal News. Paranormal News is another thing we do on there, and if you're you know, interested in that or the eight dollars tier gets awesome keychain. So that's another thing. But you know, check out the Patreon. You can also give Patreon memberships to people now, so that's holiday And then just a reminder, I completely forgot, but on November first, Apple started doing this weird thing where they charged way more for people that are signing up for Patreon subscriptions on the app. So it's better if you're going to you know, subscribe, not even just to us, but if you're like I want to support this creator, get on your computer or a web browser to do it. Don't do it through the Patreon app on your iPhone. More. Yeah, they made this like dirty percent charge or something like that. Yeah, and then like either we take the cut or you take the cut. Like someone's going to take the cut, not Patreon. So yeah, so yeah, just sign up on the website and yeah, okay, I think that's all the announcements we have. Oh sorry, Our current book, cup Breed is The Witches of Basle. Did you get your book? Yes, just start in the box. Okay, I have it already either I just got it. Oka, well I got it like earlier in the week, but okay last week. Yeah, okay, I know I can't now stop. All right, that's it now. Yeah, and I don't know, watch out for shadow. Oh yeah, that's who I was just gonna say, watch out for shadows in the middle of the night when you're visiting your family. Yeah, but also that and say spooky. We'll catch everyone next time. By my Let's give a quick shout out to our newest patron member, Fred, who just became a member of the No Mammes super series. Spookie, I still have to send your key chain out, but I will, I promise. And a shout out to the rest of our members, am Marien Drossadio, Avery Lissandro Robin Oryan, Wesley and Leslie, Leslie and Wesley, Jessica escavel alec Ilsi, pered Gul, Carina Mannied Mal Hilary Archer, Marlene, Patricia, Marilyn Lupe, Jorge, Anastasia, Linda, Juan, Clarissa, Becky la A, Joel Helfire, Herzon, Alejandro Laney, Something rather than Not in podcasts, Chatta Christina, A Nightmare on Fear, Street, Mari Desire, Sonja, Leanna Nacho, Mama, Nellie, Alex Naziel, Mariveele and Malia Ashes and Janie Michelle Modesto, Perlaena Bellone, our cousin Martin, it Is Ghostrain and Mark on Charity. Thank you so much for supporting the podcast, to support me in the world. To us as book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and with the help of Don shout out with Don. If you aren't joying the podcast considerably, going to say five star review, we would really appreciate it. If you don't want to the five star review, just don't leave a review. But don't even even lower than that, please, I'm just kidding. You can reach out to the podcast at at Spoakatos at gmail dot com. You can go to our website at bookitos dot com and fill out the contact form. If you want to support the podcast, you can join our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. Eight dollar members get an exclusive key chain. It's super cool. I got new ones and these ones are huge and if you want to support but you can or don't want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can also get some merch You can find sure Sessay, Spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie. I love the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a no mamss shirt which is a fan favorite. There's a lot of options, crap tops, sweaters. It's almost swetter weather. We're nearing a Spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies. You're gonna need them. If you don't want to do all that, that's fine too. You can just listen like you're listening now, and that's the best support that you can give us. Like I always say in our ad break and yeah, I feel like history. You can follow Estodia's Unknown Mining, Carmen's other podcasts, and you can find a Spooky taels on all of our socials at a Spooky Tells All. This is in the show notes and we appreciate every single listen. Thank you so much. Stay as Spooky