Brujas During the Spanish Inquisition in Mexico

Hi, This is Christina and Carmen, and this is another episode of a Spooky Tales podcast for all things spooky, paranormal, O other places, myths, legends, true crime in Latin America. And today today's about Bruchas Brochas. Yeah, not your normal like Brucha legend. This is Bruchas during the Spanish Inquisition in Mexico. Spanish Inquisition. Mm hmm. But before we get to that, we do have a listener's story and if you have a story that you want to send to us, you can email a spookyitos at gmail dot com. You can submit it on Discord, you can send it via DM on really any of the socials. We've had people send them on Instagram, on TikTok, any of those work. You can also call the a spooky hotline, which is what this listener did. Yay. We love getting voicemails. There's just something to heard about someone telling their own speaky story. Truly. Yes, but really we love all forms of your stories, so send them in also. Yes, yes, yes, Okay, are you ready? I'm ready? All right, I'm gonna do one two three and then we'll press play. Okay, one two three Hi guys. I'm Nati Viva from Texas. So I have a couple of things. It's mostly my parents' house, which was my popole's old house. So one day my little brother was their at their house and he saw what looked like my cousin like run to the kitchen, and so he like went over there and he started calling his name, and he would he would nowhere to be found. So he called my cousin and he's like, hey, uh, where'd you go? And he's like, I already left your house. It's like, what do you mean you were just in the kitchen. I just saw you like run by, and he was like, no, I left, I left a while ago. And my brother was so scared. He called my mom and my dad home and everyone was looking everybody to make sure there wasn't like a burglar or anything. And from then on, we you know, we kind of just tucked it up because we met my purple and he should come and visit us and everything. And then like a couple of nights later, my mom was like woken up to the smell of my grandpa's cigarette smoke and it was like right by her window, and she didn't get scared or anything. She was like, oh, well, there it is. There's there's our sign saying that. Yeah, what's purple? That was here? But I thought it was pretty cool. Thank y'all for listening. Uh, I love listening to y'all's podcast, and I have a great day. Bye wow, thank you for setting that in. Okay, So first I thought, no, that's not your your grandpa. I'm sorry, that's something sinister, because anytime anyone like pretending to be someone else, Yes, yes, and maybe it was. But then what do they call him? Popo? Is that what she said? Yeah? Then Popo came and got rid of the thing, and that's why they smelled h city. That's what I think too, because I don't know why Popo would need to represent himself as somebody else, And the dida makes sense that whatever, like evil sys or thing, it was only a couple of days later they smelled popo scent because he was there to protect them. Yes, yes, and that that that turns this very horrifying thing into something beautiful truly, Yes, yes, yes, Okay, should we talk about Brucas during the Spanish inquisition in Mexico. Let's do it, Okay, and maybe maybe you're wondering why. And that's because the other day I don't know why. What the hell of me and you Carman, we're talking about that. We were talking about the granddaughters of the Witch, were yapping. We were yapping over at our other podcasts, we talked about Latin American history, but on Patreon we yap about not yep a lot. Yeah, And I don't know why either. I don't know how this came up. Well, we were talking about witches, so how that quote came up? And I remember saying, like, no, y'all are the daughters of the Confederacy because I remember laughing it's a joke from the internet. I didn't make it up. Yeah, the daughters of the people doing the burning. Actually, yes, you're the daughters of the burners of the inquisitors. Yeah. So yeah, that's why brucas are on our mind, exactly. And I know, obviously that's like tied with the Sale Witch trials, which famously did not happen in Latin America, right, they happened in Salem exactly, fucking dumb, okay, And but you know what Latin America did have was the Spanish Inquisition. And while there was not big, huge witch trial hunts. There was some. There were some more so outside of Mexico than in Mexico, but they still happened in Mexico. And that's what led me to these notes today. I have a couple of witch trials during the Spanish Inquisition in Mexico, and we have talked a bit about the Spanish Inquisition in previous episodes. I don't know why it came up. I think the Madia Pisatro. Yeah, yeah, we talked about it, but that was in that was in Mexico, right, yes, no, no, yeah, just the Spanish Inquisition in general we talked about. So I thought you said Mexico in Mexico. For some reason, the episode is in Mexico, but right now it's talking about the Spanish Acquisition as a whole. Also, sorry, you might hear my children more today, okay, but a quick refresher. So, the Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition in New Spain, that's the long way to say the Spanish Inquisition. So in New Mexico what they called Mexico to the colonized it. It was established in fifteen seventy one and then disbanded in eighteen twenty and the main place where they, you know, took all these accusations and reports and stuff like that. It was an office located in what is today the Museum of Medicine of UNAM, the University of in Mexico City. That's where they did this. I went there. Oh you did. Well, that's where they did it and it's still there. Interesting, which is wild to me. And the official number of those prosecuted under the inquisition is unknown, but it's estimated that fifty people were executed, and twenty nine of those fifty are Judaizurs, a faction of Jewish Christians. And I guess if people don't know, there was a persecution of Jewish people that started in Spain because of queen fuck was the Queen Isabella, I forget their names. One of the queens was like, we need to they need to convert, and so then there was like this whole movement of Jewish people pretending to convert. Oh I did not know that, No, not at all. Oh wow, okay, yeah, that's why there's a lot of Jewish people all over Latin America. Oh, that was like the start of Jewish migration into Latin America. But there's obviously a lot of reasons. That's one of the many, and the original intention of the Inquisition was to maintain Roman Catholic orthodoxy. But also part of it, once they started colonizing the global South, part of it was the conversion of the colonized indigenous people into Catholicism. And then once that happened, there was less punishing of the indigenous people. Like the Inquisition didn't really have a say in what the indigenous people did after the initial round of colonizing, so like in the late like I don't know, seventeen hundreds or whatever, like, they weren't punishing indigenous people under the Inquisition. It was all mestisos, negros mulatos and that's their words, right, I'm just reading my source. Because they had a cast system, they had a whole wildcast system, and so the people that were not just straight Indigenous, they were the people that were punished by the Inquisition. And this they also includes Jewish populations, but out of everyone that was persecuted by an Inquisition, women usually were the targets, like were the majority of people that were actually punished. And so this leads to our first story from seventeen oh nine. Lorenzo Martinez Montano was a fifty year old Spanish horse shoer living in Mexico City, and he went to the Holy Tribunal, the office of the Spanish Inquisition, to report a bruja, a woman named Bonificia Miranda. Do leave her alone, man let her be? And Bonificia was a single mestiza who dared to dress like a Spanish woman and also happened to be his mistress. Oh my God, of course, of course. Uh what is Spanish women dressed like compared to Mestisa's. You know, I really am not too sure, but I could imagine kind of like fancy dress or some shit. Yeah, I imagine that there was an official or maybe official dress code that people had to follow, because I know the Mariachi chadro suit was originally designated for indigenous people because they could not ride horses and they had to like be singled out in this uniform. So I remember you talking about that in your short lived in my short lived podcast called a Little Bit, Yes, yeah, yeah, and I want to bring that back. But I did have an episode about the history of the chattel suit, and just based on knowing that they did this with the chattel suit. I imagine that there was some sort of either official or an official dress code, but I didn't look it up for this, but that makes sense. Yeah, and I mean they had more money. So when the inquisitor asked him why he was reporting her, he said, Bonifisia had tied him, and now I had to tie. What tying is, yeah, m hm, cursedly, cursedly, yeah, crist fully. So. Tying or ligatura was a remedy done by Brucas. This involved taking an egg, piercing it with a straw, placing the hairs of your target slash victim in that hole, and then burying the egg where the victim urinated, and following these steps tied the target, making it so they cannot have intercourse with any women. That's so wild that this is from the seventeen hundred. I guess it's not that wild. But in Rakan she mentions this practice because you know, she teaches the woman or whatever these are the old ways. But I'm like, of course she would know that, like, yeah, you know these that goes into a book, but yeah, passed down and that Yeah, I mean that just shows how accurate research is done for like horror. Yes, also, yeah, if you haven't read a Hurricane of Seasons again, it destroyed us, but it was do I recommend it? No, we're not going to do this again. We already did this, right, yeah, I did it as a speaker recommendation. I'll save my attentionent for later, right, Yeah, let's still say it for but yes, so that's what Tayan is and following oh, I already said that. It makes it so they campen of course. Yeah, but it's also something that can be undone. It's not permanent. So the inquisitor then asked what made Lorden to believe that's like, why would she tie you? Why do you think she tied you? And he's like, well, when I first met Bonnie Facia, Oh did I say Boni Facia earlier? What did you say, Bonnie? It should be Bonnie Fsia. Sorry, I may say it wrong, but it's Bonnie Fisia. But I accidentally typed it different in a bunch of different places. So sorry. When he first met Bonnie Ficia, she used to give him Coco and we did talk about it somewhere else a long time ago. In another episode, I remember this about many women who made Coco being persecuted under the Spanish inquisition in Guatemala. It was one of our Blue Kaye episodes from before. But yeah, this was a thing. And so she used to give him cocoa and other things to eat, and that's how she probably cursed him because he accepted these things from her. And he said that during one of their meetups, he felt a hair cross into his viral member yea, and ever since that day he cannot get it up with his wife. For his wife, sir, did you think that maybe this could be because there's something else? But no, everything during this time was woman's fault exactly. But he had been able to perform the deed with Boni Fisia. Obviously this was a curse, like it can't be anything else. Wow, And to prove his case, Lorenzo brought in a letter signed by five witnesses. And I don't know how you have witnesses for that? How do you get five witnesses for this? And they had to be president while he was trying to get along with his wife, right like, I can't imagine another way to prove this and then right like questionable yeah, yeah. In that same letter, he mentions a two year affair with Winifia, during which they had a daughter. Oh my god, and he got tired of the affair and wanted to end it, and he offered to Oneificia to be her compadre and baptized their daughter. And back then, I don't know about now, but back then, compadres were considered spiritual kin, and that meant real kin. So they were That meant they were going to be a real family. And under the rule of the church, compadrees couldn't be freaking together. They weren't allowed. Well that makes sense, right, because that's like your sibling now, right right, your spiritual sibling. Yeah, yeah, you can't do it with them. Interesting, And this was like a sneaky way to try and end their relationship without saying the words let's let's break this up. I don't want to do this anymore. He's like, why don't I be her compadre? Wow? Yeah, this is like the original way of like, it's not me, it's you. Yes, yes, And Bonnie Ficiah, obviously it was not cool. Wait, I didn't even say that, right, it's not you, it's me. It's wait to say I said it's not me. It's you. Oh, and of course I would be like yes, yeah, oh my god, what's wrong with us? I know, because it's never our fault. No, exactly, And yeah, obviously when if I was not cool with this, and so when he said that to her, she was like, if you dare do this, you will remember me for the rest of your life, and also said she wished his wife would die. Oh, Sachary catching strays this poor wife. Right first he teats on her. He first, he cheats on her for two years, and then the mistress is like, yeah, and she should fucking die. Also, she was already sick. The wife was sick. Yeah, she was already sick. She was just sick, like a sick woman. Oh. I don't know remember you saying that before? No, I just said right now, I hadn't talked about the wife. Oh okay, yeah, and I didn't write notes. Oh, so she was sick, she was getting cheated on. He was out there having children on her, and then he couldn't even have sex with her and then was like die bitch, wow wow, yeah, like what it was messed up. But Lorenzo ignored when Bonificia said this, He's like whatever, until he just couldn't get it up with his wife. Then he was like, all right, you cursed me, ruined my marriage. It wasn't him. I did would say marriage. He ruined his marrige, but okay not according to Lorenzo. And he tried to go to Bonnificia for a cure, because again, tying someone can be undone, but she was awaiting him as she should, right, And then one day he ran into Bonnificia's sister and mother and they advised him to cut his hair as a cure. I don't know, maybe just know what that would have if that would have worked, But he didn't want to be because the tying involved hair. Oh my god, that makes so much sense because his hair was put Oh is that smart? Yeah, you know what that could be it, But he didn't want to do it. He wanted to keep his hair and I'm like, you can't have it. Look what happened exactly for being vain, for our Spanish tent trends. And yeah, he didn't listen. And then they told them to go to a surgeon named Juan Guerrero, and he did do that, maybe because it was another man. I don't know what would the surgeon even do nothing, nothing except confirmed that Lorenzo was definitely cursed. I'm sorry, how is the surgeon qualified to make that determination? What do they know about witchery? He looked at him, He's like, they know, I got let me bring up my prescription pad. Cursed, cursed. You should already know this cursed. Yeah. I wonder why he would know. What did he do to know officially he was cursed? But that was his diagnosis, interesting cursed and so uh. Lorenzo's last recourse was going to the Holy Tribunal and accusing Bon Monifsia, and the inquisitor then sent Lorenzo to another priest at the same holy tribunal, where Lorenzo was supposed to confess and hopefully, with this confession his sin would be forgiven and thus he would be cured, he would be absolved of his sins. And there's no other record on what happened to Lorenzo after or if the inquisition ever went after Bonnificia. I'm going to hope that they didn't and she went on to live a happy long life, however long that could be back then, and that she went on cursing the men that she wanted because they probably deserved it. And I mean Lorenzo did, yes, and I wish the same for her. Okay. And so this next story also comes from Mexico City, but some years after the first one. So wait, how long did the inquisition last? Oh? I sit her in the beginning, but I had to go look again. Hold on fifteen seventy one to eighteen twenty. Oh that's quite a while. Yeah, towards the end, they were no longer interested in persecuting people the way they did in the beginning, So they were just putting them in jail. What were they doing nothing at the end. It was like first when they arrived into Spain, it was like all about converting all the deshase people they could write. Then you know, came like the rest of conversation. The mestizos, the all the black people they uh trafficked into Mexico. They're offspring. And so the that's part a bit. I know all this. I want to know what happened. So these this time period, Now they were in the late sixteen hundreds, so like that, don't know, the end of the seventeen hundreds, this was them looking for witchcraft all the accusations of witchcraft. Then after that it became like looking for people that were making quote unquote packs with the devil, and they wouldn't do anything with them. They were kind of the same. They would have trials and they would either like say confess or exorcisms, right, things like that. Sometimes they didn't do anything. Sometimes they just put them in prison. And then later they just didn't do anything. They didn't like look into these investigations anymore. It just wasn't like worth their time. That was like the end towards the end of the toward the end of the inquisition. So they're just chilling. They weren't doing anything, nothing like this. I forgot what their goal was after this, but yeah, there was no more persecuting people like there was during these years. And then yeah, so yeah, this happened. This one happened a few years sins of the first film, but also in Mexico City. Frey Diego Nunez was a Spanish and slaver living in Mexico City, and in seventeen thirty three his life started falling apart because he believed that this was happening because of a curse by Bruca, and he wrote a letter to the inquisition, and his letter kind of told his like a life story and the curse and all that. So his arms were so painful he could barely manage to move them, and no medicine helped at all. This went on for days until he tried an incense and then he was healed. After his arms were all better, he found that he could no longer pee. He couldn't go pee, and this lasted eleven days. He probably had a gone a rehab honestly, or syphilis. Syphilis is the one actually working that in here, That's what I was thinking of. Yeah, And when he was finally able to go, he expelled twenty or more normal measures, so he just like he peed insane pete wow, like an ocean. After that, he started having horrible body aches. And this ordeal went on for eight months. Like the more I read, the more it sounds like sils No cursed by Bruca. Then he started having horrible, horrible body ech o. I'm sorry I read that. Oh, then things got weird. He claims that after this eight month or a deal of all those symptoms, he started having stones come out of him over the span of two weeks, like kidney stones, No, like stones from all or orifices. Oh yeah, including his pee hole. Yes, isn't that a thing? Well, kidney stones is a thing, but to come out, but he was saying, stones were coming out from everywhere. Oh that's the difference. But yeah, Cindy, stones do come out. You had to pass them, and it's very painful, like compared to childbirth. Painful. And I would say, like man on the floor crying painful, But that doesn't mean a lot. So these stones one of the many weird things about all this. The stones that were coming out of him were all different. Some were spongy stones, other were smooth, and others were smooth and solid, and some were different colors. And sometimes it wasn't even stones but wool wool. Yeah, woo whoa, whoa, whoa, yes, wooa what mm hmmm? Did other people see these things? Or you know, he didn't have Winness sign a letter like Lorenzo wow, So I don't believe him. So he said going to the bathroom was painful and strange and unusual things came out of his body when he went to go pee, and it was terrible, things like emeralds, olives, what or stool that looked goat like goat like yeah, like goat poop. I don't know what got poop looks like me either, Yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't. Citys. Yeah, we are not farm girls. No, we're not from Adrancho at all. And all of these weird ass symptoms were always worse on Sundays, which is a day God's day, exactly the most holiest of day. Okay, I believe it now. He is cursed. And these all these things that were happening to him, combining with them being worse on Sunday to Diego, all pointed to one thing, witchcraft. This was obviously a curse. It couldn't be anything else. And he suspected Yeah, and he suspected one person, a woman named Manuela, who prays the woman right always, That's what I'm saying, always a woman. And Manuela had been enslaved by Diego. It was one of his enslaved people that he enslaves. Well, then he deserved to be curbed, right. So it's like, if she did it, I'm on her side, no doubt about it. Yeah, support her rights and wrongs. And all of Frey Diego's troubles began after he caught Manuela with another man, a young painter, and he scolded them and punished them. Who cares if she's with another man? The hell he does, because this is his property, according to him, disgusting and so obviously the things that were happening to him was Manuela seeking revenge for him punishing them and keeping them apart. And this, this, to him, explained the spongy rocks and the wool coming out of his body, because these were tools painters used. Oh and now I'm like, hmm, well maybe maybe maybe, And I kind of love her for it, me too, And you know, it made sense to him. Manuela had access to curse him. She made all of his food, his drinks, she prepared his clothes everything. You know what this is similar like to who was the other guy for all Lorenzo. Lorenzo's like, oh, she made me food, she feded me, so she had access and like the ability to curse me. I'm like, man, this wouldn't be our problem if you just cook through yourself and find yourself. No for real, but no, they can't do that. And he also accused her of putting love potions in his chocolate hot chocolate. The cocos again a common thing. Yeah. Also it's like the there's another layer to it because the preparing of the coco, how coco was this sacred thing and a lot of like especially like the Mexika. So I don't know about other indigenous groups, but specifically the Mexica who were in Mexico City right like then, but the making of the haw coco was the sacred thing used only for rituals or to like relieve pain for like women, and the preparers of this hot coco traditionally were always women anyway, and so this practice would have continued, but now it's this demonized thing instead of this sacred thing. So I found that fascinating too, because you know me, I love to uh look into like what else is going on here? Yeah. Diego eventually found another African woman named get through These uh to help him with the curse. She was a healer and she had the knowledge to get rid of curses. And he improves a little bit after reaching out to get Through These for help, and he sent Manuela away, but not before punishing her with daily beatings bitch, And so I stand by him deserving it. He should have been cursed even worse, honestly, right, Yeah, but after he sent Manuela away, he was not getting fully better just a little bit, and get through these at all, right, get through these told Diego that the reason he wasn't healing because he's a bitch. Yeah, I get through these. Told Diego the reason he wasn't healing faster is because Manuela had a doll of him and she was using the doll for witchcraft. And the only way for him to be fully better was for Manuela to get rid of the doll or give him the doll. And so he went to Manuila and demanded the doll and told her, if you give me the doll, I will set you free. I don't know if he actually did, but get through These went to her to Manuela and did get the doll back, and still there was no improvement with Diego. And so when he wasn't getting better, he began to suspect that Get Through These and Manuela were working together Wow to curse him. And just as he was like, you know what, she's probably in on it, he ran into some Spanish woman who told him that she saw get through these performing black magic. It's like they were just getting people to snitch on each other. Oh yeah, that was whole, the whole like dynamic that was set up. It's like this long history of snitching on people. Yeah, and he's like, yeah, you know what. She probably wasn't even trying to help me from the beginning. Her and Manuana were working together to curse me. Wow, they should have. And we only know this because he sent a letter to the Spanish Inquisition. He didn't go in person. But other than that, there's no record of what happened to him after Manuela de Bocanegra or get through these like, there's no nothing. Well I hope that nothing bad happened to them. Yeah. Same. But you can find his letter. I have the link if anyone wants to read it in Spanish. It's in the archives of the Spanish Inquisition, which is archived under like the Mexican government has a section of things under that, and that's where that letter is. So yeah, those are two cases of bruchheria during the Spanish Inquisition, which we really have to wonder was it actually bruckheria more likely not, Yeah, but if it was and whatnot. But even if they did, I don't care. I'm right for them yeah. Same. Hopefully these these girlies lived out their full lives. They continure to their full thirty years old life. Yeah yeah, and continue to set their crisis upon the world, so we can only hope. Yeah and yeah. That's it for this episode. Also, I didn't say this at the beginning, but I'm trying to do short episodes because we need to create a backlog, like I have a little mini vacation coming up this weekend and then again at the end of the month. At the end of the month, Carmen and I will be can we say what we're doing? Oh? We should? Yeah? Do you want to say we're going to leave y'all? Yes? And for those that don't know, it's the la that the National Film Festival. Yes, we were invited by. These are the one of the writers of Madris who reached out and says she wrote or directed, wrote and directed. I forgot already. Wow, this is terrible anyway, this short, this Western horror called The Hour of Blood. I love Western horror, Yes, I can't. I only read like one Western horror Vampires. Oh wait two? Oh, okay, Let's own Woman by Victor Lavelle. Oh what yes? Okay? Oh? How was that, so good bye bout All. I'm gonna add it to my list. You would love it. I loved his other book that I already forgot, the one with the Devil. The Devil I can't remember. But yeah, she uh invited us to watch her short, and even though it's a very short short, UH worth the whole trip for us. So we're gonna go Karmen is gonna pick me up or leaving the children with our Mathenet, and then we're gonna head to La to watch that. So and I don't know, maybe we'll do some other stuff too. Yeah, yeah, that'll be fun. Maybe we'll run into some listeners somewhere. If you see us, we don't know who you are, so you can say hi. Yeah. But yeah, I'm excited for that movie. I was gonna say it's gonna stout the movie. Oh. The name of the movie kind of reminds me of this other occurrence in Texas history called the Hour of Blood, where they went killing Mexicans, and I remember if it was I wonder if Bill has to do with that, I wonder, I wonder. I don't know it's set around that time period, because I think it was set in nineteen fifteen or was it maybe before that. They don't quote me on that, but yeah, so, yeah, we're gonna be doing things, so we need to create a little backlog for us so we can still release episodes. Yeah, and it's hard. It is hard now here. It is it is. But do you have any spooky recommendations? I do, because I feel like I don't know what I've been doing. I feel like I haven't been recommending anything. Oh well, last time I wasn't on you went here last time? Yeah, and yes that was Christina's fault. I gave her the wrong date time both time time. Okay, the date was correct. Okay, Yeah, I did I talk about No, I think I did. The reason I don't remember is because you had already recommended this cursed houts and then I read it, yes after you, And I think that's why why I didn't talk about it, because you had already talked about it. Yeah, it's so good anyway, yes, so good. But I listened to two was it two pretty Hendrick's books? Oh? Yeah, the new one. I didn't recommend that either. Huh yet I remember I talked to you about it. Oh wait, I listened to three Grady Hendricks books. You've been on a Grady Hendrix kick, Yes, and you know what why? You know why? Not what? Anyway? And you know why? Okay, why because I so on Libby. I had a hold for Witchcraft for Wayward Girls, which is his newest book, came out probably like what last month, I think or two months ago, and I had a hold on it. It took like two months so it finally became available. So I listened to that, and then recently I learned about this free library like app to for all California residents. Oh yeah, I think I had told you about it, but I don't think I've talked about it on here. I thought I told you about it. Why would you tell me? I send you a Threads post I saw, Oh yes, maybe that's how I found out about it. Yeah, I'm like, why would you tell me about it? By the fun why would you not? Kelly Resident? You fucking wash it him, bitch, whoa, whoa, whoa, calm down, I'm just kidding. Uh anyway, Yeah, Christina told me about it after all that. But anyway, it's super simple and there's a pdf online about how to sign up for it. But it's still pretty simple. You do have to be in California because it uses your GPS thing. Okay, No, I remember I was visiting you when you told me about it, and I'm like, I'm gonna wait till I get back right. The app is called Palace, and then you search California's bookshelf and there is a whole shit town of books on there. Oh, no, wonder you've been reading so much more? Yes, yeah, one of them, this Chris House, I read on my phone because that's the thing is, so if you have if you like to read on Kindle, it doesn't you can't send them to your kindle. Oh, so I read it on my phone, This Chris House, which is it wasn't bad because I finally got a new phone with the biggest screen a while ago. But yeah, they have a lot of audiobooks too, and they even have a Spanish section. I haven't listened to any Spanish books. Wow, But you know, it's the funniest thing. I was on there looking to see what they had, and then I even screenshirted it because when I read it, when I read the title just from the small like little screen that was there, I thought, so a Colleen Hoover book is on there in Spanish and it's called rob It's it ends with us. But when I read the title, I thought, oh, my fucking god, it looks like you're from far away. So I was like, excuse me. And then I was like, oh, it's miss Colin Hooper. What Colleen? Excuse me? But anyway, so, yeah, they have a lot of audiobooks on there and so, and they have way more Grady Hendrix than Libby my library does, and Liby is different for every county. So I mean, yeah, mine has a lot of books that yours doesn't, way more. Yeah, but yeah, I listened to so wait, first of all, which word which craft for? We Were Girls? Was super interesting? You talked about that one I sent you like a voice message or text about it. That's what I'm taking. Yeah, sorry, all right, So I did. I was telling Christiane about it that I could see it being very triggering because there's a lot of like body horror and like, I don't know, pretty graphic descriptions of like child births, and they're pretty mean back then to those girls, those teen girls also that, so they treat them even worse. And you know, back then there was even less respecting of like the person giving birth of their wishes and everything like that. Right, there's like a lot of that going on. But I did think it was gonna be a little bit more witchy, but the like the witchiness happens in the background of what the girls are going through. But it was still super interesting. I would say, I think I would have preferred to read it then to listen to it, because when one of the girls is giving birth, like the narrator straight up screams, Oh that's right, you did tell me that. Yeah, And it's a little it's a little much, am much. Yeah. I was like, I feel like I almost fast forward it. I probably would have. I should have, because I'm like, I don't need to listen to this. Yeah. Yeah, but it was still good and I liked it, and I did end up breating it four and a half out of five for me, Okay, And then I listened to my best friend's Exorcism. That one. I loved. It was amazing. Yeah, that was good. And my favorite thing was the friendship. There's nothing that I love more than a writer die friendship. Friendship, and that's what these girls had till the end. Yet a full variant and the end I literally almost cried. That takes a lot for Carmen to cry yeah, because she's dead inside exactly exactly yes. And then I listened to Stickum dead and sign oh yeah is dead insigne No, just the inside, Okay. I listened to We Sold Our Souls by Grady Hendricks, and I think that I need to I need to just like got that that books about heavy rock or like rock pands are not for me. Oh yeah, I would probably just skip on that, skip that yeah alone. Yeah, I some parts were grabbed. They grabbed my attention. So I did end up braiding it three because so I don't know if it just didn't catch my attention and I missed a lot, and then I'm like, what happened? So that's I'm like, I feel like I couldn't give it less than three like I wanted, because I'm like, okay, what if it was my fault for not paying attention, but also it didn't grasp it didn't keep my attention, and then out the book has to be like interesting and good for me to pay attention if not in my mind goes elsewhere, and that happened with this one. So I did see like a lot of the reviews were like, you know, if they liked rock and like listen to that music, then they liked it more than others who didn't. So I think I just fall in that camp that it's not for me, because I felt the same way about what was it called the other book by Oh I did not much care for that either. Video. Yes, Ghost Radio gave off the same vibes as this one. Yeah, our souls And you know, maybe it's my fault. I was expecting something like Jennifer's Buddy Oh okay, yeah, because you know that band sells their souls. Yes, yes, and that was my bad because also another thing I don't like about Palace is that you can't read a summary of the book. You just have to just the title. You have to go off five. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been finding books that I already know about and know what they're about, so it had him been a problem for me, But this one, I was like, well, I like every Grady Hendrix book that I read. I like, so I was like, I'll like it too, But it was for me, I don't think, Okay, okay, Yeah, I have heard critiques of him, especially in the way word, which is one about the way he writes black women. But I haven't read it, so I don't know. I heard the same thing about the Southern Women's Book Club Guide, whatever the hell was called. You know what you're talking about, right, Yeah, i'd about both of those killing vampires or whatever it was called. Yeah, I don't know if I'm just dumb and I miss you know, we have said we are dumb in other books. I grasp when something's a little off. Oh my god. You know what I haven't talked about and I haven't even wanting to make a tick talk about talking shit about this book. Incidents. No, it's not called incidents. That's another one, okay, because I liked incidents around. I haven't even read that anyway. I think that was basically it about. Okay, but now I want to know what book you're talking about right now. It's because I was saying that I do. I usually do catch like things like, wait, this is a little off, this is like like racist, this is like depiction of this race, this is very flat. Yeah, yeah, sometimes I can catch it. I I don't know if I if I just like Grady Hendrix, then it misses me because I'm an apologist. Yes, I'm a Grady Hendricks apologist, I am. But yeah, because I think they say, hey, you, this is a magical Negro trope. That's what I That's what it was. I couldn't remember what it was, but yeah, I think that's what I heard too. Yeah, and his books are very white, but he's white, and I think it's hard. I don't know, I don't I an, I just kidding. I'm not defending. I'm an apologize. You definitely a white man. Don't make me defend great handed. I'm just kidding. I think that it's a tricky area because you also don't want to get into a white author writing people of color or black people and then stereotyping and not doing a good job about it. And so I'm like, I don't know, do I prefer them to stick to the what they know or not? Also another critique I saw, I saw people saying, you can clearly tell this it's written by a man. Oh, I have heard that about the way he rants women. But I don't know. Maybe I'm not one of the other girls because I haven't noticed me either. That's what I'm saying. I think because I am a signe no, in a way. Same because I sighed about The Final Girls Support Club. Oh, I haven't read that. On Saturday, it is on Polis, so it's on my list. Yeah, you should read it. But I'm like, I don't know. I mean, there are traumatized survivors. I don't I don't know. I don't notice. I didn't notice that. And I feel like I have noticed it in other books or like when I've watched I don't know. I don't know if it's just easier to miss for in his books, but I haven't felt any kind of way about his women characters. Yeah, same, same, And and I found that critique about the Southern Women's Guides, and I keep forgetting what it's called the exact title of Southern Guides book Club Vampires some feeling, I think something you know, people will people will know, but I don't know. I didn't get that vibe because to me, all the women were so different, but they were all in some way being like controlled by the men in their lives. But I don't think that's wrong. I think that's true, especially in that time because it was. It's not current, so I don't know, And I think the same thing may be said for which word wayward? Ever, which way weard? School for girls? Yes, everything like that gets worse, It gets more incorrectly as we say it. Yeah, yeah, more wrong as I go on. But yeah, I mean the thing can be said like to me, each character was different and it was written of those times, you know. So I don't know. I don't feel like that when I read his books. But maybe other people are smarter than me. That's true for sure. But yeah, I listened to Hidden Pictures. Have you heard of this book? I haven't. It's by Jason Ricculac, and I had heard good reviews about it, but then as I was listening to it, I'm like, what the fuck? So then I go. I whenever i'm feeling like what the hell, I go and look at the reviews. You go searching for opinions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, see if they match with you with what you're thinking. Of course. Yeah, and some people felt as weird as I did. And I've been wanting to look more into this author to see what he's about because of how weird the book was. What is this book about? So? Fresh out of rehab, Malory Quinn takes a job in the affluent suburb of Springbrook, New Jersey, as a babysitter for ted and Carolyn Maxwell. She is to look after their five year old son, Teddy. Malory immediately loves his new job. She lives in the Maxwell's poolhouse, goes out for nightly runs, and has the stability she craves, and she sincerely bonds with Teddy, a sweet, shy boy who is never without his sketchbook and pencil. His drawings are the usual fair trees, rabbits, balloons, but one day he draws something different, a man in the forest dragging a woman's lifeless body. As the day's passed, Teddy's artwork becomes more and more sinister, and his stick figures steadily evolve into more detailed, complex and lifelike sketches will beyond the ability of any five year old. Mallory begins to suspect these are glimpses of an unsolved murder from long ago, perhaps relayed by a supernatural force lingering in the forest behind the Maxwell's house. With help from a handsome landscaper and an eccentric neighbor, Mallory sets out to decipher the images and save Teddy. While coming to terms with the tragedy in her own past before it's too late. So from that description, yes, okay, it's called hidden pictures. Okay. And the cool thing I guess from people that read it the drawing. There's drawings that the kid draws are in the book, So I mean that's a cool aspect. So I was suspecting I guess, like, you know, something supernatural, paranormal. It was weird. So this couple and spoilers ahead this couple, Ted and Carolyn are like super liberal, but like you know, like like liberal in the bad sense, which is a liberal, yes, derogatory in the sense of derogatory, And so I don't know if it's supposed to be like satirical or if like so they have all these rules that Mallory Mallory is supposed to follow, and does it even say anything about her oh Fresh Shadow rehab it does say. Okay, so Malory is super into AA or n A whatever the hell. She's always talking about God, which is fine. People believe in God. I'm not against that, and but not Mallory. Ted and Carolyn are against that. And so they don't want her to to talk to Ted about her religion because they're all about science in science, which understandable, but it's fine. It's dark kid blah blah blah. But there's like little like equips here and there about that, and I don't know, it's it's weird. Mallory also loves JK. Rowling and Harry Potter, and to me in this day and age, it's weird. And this book was published in twenty twenty two, so to be for me to be praising and mentioning Harry Potter as much as this book does, it's fucking weird. It's weird, Okay. So that was a red flag for me. And then this liberal couple they have all these stringent rules that are over the top with with what they allow and don't allow for Teddy, right, And one of those things is that I forgot what Teddy asks that he asks something like about biological sex or whatever. And then the mom Carolyn, did I say her name was Carolyn? I think you're forgetting their names? Yeah, Carolyn. So at one point she tells Mallory like, no science, only this, and that we bought him this book that supposedly is like a sex at a book, but in the book she talks about, oh, it teaches him about how men have sex with each other, and it has pictures, And I'm like, what kind of mother would teach a five year old like you can talk to them. You can talk to five year olds about their bodies and or production in a way that is age appropriate and it would not involve any kind of image of pictures or description of sex. Right, yeah, but this sounds this sounds like it's like yes. So I was like, all right, we probably got there, but that's what I felt. And then so there's that, and then it turns out that Carolyn couldn't have children and she stole this fucking kid. Oh oh, and she's a girl. And to hide what they did, they made her be a boy and so they made her dress up like a boy, and so then they wouldn't Can Maori help help her out with anything like having to do like with the bathroom whatever? And the reason that may Malorie finds out is because they go swimming and then she's rinsing. Oh you know what I just remembered. Sorry, I'm like, I can't talk in a straight manner direct mat Yeah. So anyway, so I was saying that Carolyn bring mentions this book that talks about sex between men and blah blah, which, of course no one in the right mind it doesn't. This sounds like what they think sex at is at school. It sounds like propaganda and right wing brain rot. Yes. Yeah, So the reason that comes up is because the kid asks Mallory if she has if her body part sticks out or something like that, and then Mallory, I forgot what Mallory tells her. But then Carolyn is like, oh, oh, I would appreciate if you didn't talk about these things. And we have these books for Teddy so that he can learn. And then this one talks about never remember if she talks about it and describes with in it or if Mallory looks at it, but either way, the book, which is supposed to be for a five year old, talks about sex between men and then talks about like trans things and whatever like yeah, which again, no one in the right mind is teaching five year olds about self and graphic descriptions or even descriptions of sex, Like nobody does that, you know, ridiculous, So it is it feels like it's like dog whistling. Yeah, yeah, so that was weird. So what that's two weird things so far. Yeah. And then the landscaper that Mellory meets, I keep saying her name, weird matory. She was saying Mellory like melody or something. Yes, I know, I heard you. And then the landscaper that Malory meets is its Latino, but his family owns the landscaping business or they're well off, and she's surprised they're well off, you have money. And there's this part where they the guy and I forgot his name, he talked to his dad in Spanish and it's not even correct. It's I wish I remembered what they told each other because I heard it and I was like, excuse me, that's wrong. Nobody talks like that. Oh no. And so then you know, the paranormal things are happening. And Mallory of course believes in the paranormal because she's religious, but some religious people don't whatever, so you know what I mean. But she does, yeah, and then she tries to like help. And then this neighbor, exentric neighbor who's described as eccentric, she's a racist. She goes on a rant and I'm like, okay, she could have been eccentric, but she didn't have to be like this. Yeah, she goes on a rant to Mallory about illegals and this and that, and then Mallory's like, yeah, she has her she said in her ways, but she's nice. No, And then the neighbors are like or the Carolyn and the husband are like, don't talk to her. I don't know. Everyone is just like a everyone's weird in this book. This sounds very weird. Yeah. So then yeah, they they couldn't have kids themselves, these parents, so they steal liberal parents, these liberal parents who are teaching, who forced their girl daughter that they took because they couldn't have kids, so they forced them to be a boy. Forced this girl to be a boy. And then the girl is all confused about I'm sorry, this sounds like a right wingers a wet dream. Yeah, no truly. So then in the end, Mallory figures it out because of something that the girl asks, either she sees her in the shower, because she asks for help after they swim whatever, So she figures out the secret. But that's her only hint. It's not enough. So it's like it doesn't make sense how she figures this out either, like their whole plan. Yeah, and so yeah, it turns out that Carolyn took this girl from a European immigrant who was a bad mom because she was in the park being an artist drawing and not paying attention to her daughter. That sounds like another right or another whistle there about how well more attentive to their children. Yes, yeah, it was so weird. And and then the husband just goes along with it with the plan. Yes, because a liberal man and a liberal couple doesn't have the pants to say no, that's wrong. We need to give back this baby, right right? Yeah, And it was it was weird. And then overall the book has four stars, and I'm like, four stars, Yeah, that's animate treading. It's kind of shocking. But I did see some reviews that felt the same way that I did. I'm trying to pull one up to see if there's anything that I missed. But it was super weird and so yeah, I mean, besides all the weird shit with the liberal couple, I was, I'm so over that whole. I've read a few other horror books that have the same trope about infertile woman being crazy and stealing kids. Oh yeah, it's a thing, and I feel like I never noticed before and then now everything I fucking read is that even that book I liked the what I thought it was called Lone Woman, that lady wants to steal a kid. And then someone says, didn't realize it was sci fi. It's not even sci fi. Okay, okay, let me see this one. Maybe they gave it a one star, says spoilers. Throughout this book was a three at best for the first three fourths and goes completely off the rails from their flat characters that are all tired cliches. The neighbors an old lady who hates immigrants. The protagonist is a Christian with a troubled history and the heart of gold. The parents are crazy liberal atheists who scoff at religion and use what the author characterizes as the evils of transgender ideology to hide their crimes at the expense of a poor And it's a little girl who just wants to wear purple or rights right. They don't let her win certain things, and she like, I don't know that's a thing in the book. After her kidnappers forced her to live as a boy. And one of the things that gets them caught is because the school is forcing them that's right to provide basic vaccination history, which is a standard at any school. So now it's also anti vax Oh god. The twist initially reads as a trans reads as trans identity as a plot device, which is already annoyed, but then it turns out to not even be trans identity. It's a plot contrived by the evil atheist liberals whose lack of faith caused them to have no morals at all, solving their infertility problems with murder, kidnapping, and a Fox News pundits idea slash worst nightmare of a couple of a god, of a couple of godless atheists forcing a child to be trans. I read that Regulac. The author was asked if he hates trans people, and he said he supports the transmitter community. But what else was he supposed to say? He's not JK. Rowling, No matter how many positive mentions of Harry Potter he sneaks into this book, Oh my god, yes, exactly. That's how he felt. It was so fucking weird. I'm like, why are you even talking about Harry Potter so much? Right? Like, I know it's big in a lot of millennials childhoods but you'll never see me, you know, praising JK Rowling because it's not only even Harry Potter. She like directly mentions J. K Rowling a couple times. I don't know if it's a couple of times or what, but I don't know. It's just weird, like in this day and age. Okay, I think that's pretty much like the main thing. There's another one that says right wing propaganda and unearned twist conservative dog whistles on specific topics such as liberal parents and atheism versus religion. I can't in good faith recommend the book because I ultimately feel some of these messages are quite harmful to put out in the world. Oh see that. So it says, for a book released in twenty twenty two, if you referred to Harry Potter, I'm going to give you a pass initially, but when you very directly positively highlight how good of a writer jk Rowling is, alongside how this book discussed the story issues, the trends issues, you know what you're doing. So yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, I can't believe I hadn't talked about that. Well, I feel like you gave enough recommendation. Sorry, Yeah, I went on because I have not watched anything except Er. Still. Yes, I've been watching Er in my free time and then listening to Jesus and John Wayne. I'm almost done with it. I was like, why did I think you? I keep stopping to finish other books, but I haven't been reading horror books. I read a fantasy series which I honestly don't know how I feel about, by N. K. Jefferson. I loved her Broken Earth series, but this is her first series, and I already forgot what it was called. There's a lot of there's a lot of incest, and the first book it starts with like what the protagonist who ends up going to like the sky world where the gods are enslaved by this family that's also like a race slash family, and like the world. Oh, the one hundred Thousand Kingdoms is the book? Oh right? And so like the first book is about her, and then suddenly it like, but that book ends right, and then we go to the second book, and then suddenly it's about someone else. But it's like, there's no easy transition from the first book to the second book. It just doesn't like you're reading it. I'm like, am I is this in the right order, because it's suddenly it feels like something's missing between the two because it's about someone else, and there's a certain amount of years that passed from the first to the second, you like forgot who they were. No, these are complete new people. And then it's not until like the six chapters so that the main person from the first book pops up. Oh, and I'm like, what the fuck? Who the fuck is this person? Like what is happening? Oh? And yeah, so it was okay, but you can tell it was like her first series. I think it's very evident because of the Broken Earth series that shit is top notch, like sci fi. That's like a really good sci fi fantasy book series, Like it's like three books. But yeah, this one, I don't know. So I read that, and then I also read the one you're reading two something Migrant but no, the undocumented, the documented? Is that what it's called the undocumented? I could easily check. I don't know, why did you finish it? I'm almost done with it? The undocumented Americans? Yeah, so I'm also reading that. That is so good. It's so you're five times already and I think you have like an hour left. Yeah, same, same. So that's that's what I've been reading outside of trying to catch up on my work because yeah, I have a vacation coming up and then another one after that. So yeah, anyway, I don't have any speaking reforminations for the reasoning because all I've been doing is reading other things. I'm watching er. I've also been reading a lot of romance and then I'm like a little over right now because I'm like, I need, I need I get a little happy endings. Yeah, I want to be enraged. I want to Yeah, I want I want to feel angry at when I'm reading really quick. I was talking with my coworker about this one book we both read, and in it, the girl main character has She thinks she has als because her mom, her sister, and an aunt all had it and it runs in their family and they all died from it, and she starts feeling symptoms, so she thinks she has it, but then she doesn't want to go get tested because there's like a roll out kind of diagnosis, so she'd have to like basically live in the hospital and in the doctor's office, And so she gets a diagnosis, and if she's diagnosed, she there's no cure for it, so she doesn't She just doesn't want to know, and she starts having symptoms, but that turns out she doesn't have it. But the whole conflict between the couple is this disease. And they break up because the guy's like, no, you need to fight this, you need to do this and this, and she's like, no, I want to live life on my terms and blah blah, and then they break up, which is stupid also because I'm like, just accept how she wants. It's her disease that she might or might not even have, but then after all the drama, she doesn't even have it, and it was just like boo yeah, and they end up together happily ever after. And I'm like, Okay, I felt kind of like I was emotionally geary enough for her to die. And I'm not saying she should have died, but if it wasn't a romance book, I am she would have and I would have been fine with that, you know, I was. I was growing up for that. And then you were rip like a band switch like, oh she lived happily ever after? The phone? What is this die? We both said that, and we're like are we horrible? It's a little bit and so yeah, wow wow, Okay, well this brings us to the end of the episode that was a long speaker recommendation says this was supposed to be sure. I so sorry. This was all Carmon's fault. But yeah, if I don't know, actually, don't drink hockckoa. It's okay if you man, if you don't want me, someone is a man. Yeah, and yeah. Other than that, I don't let us know if you're going to lalif we might see you at lalif we will see you there. Yeah, that's at the end of being We'll be there. Man. If only we knew ahead of time, then we could have organized a little meet up. We never know. We never know ahead of time. Yeah. So yeah, Unfortunately, all right, stay spooky, We'll catch a ruin next time. Bye. My As Book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen, and with the help of Don Shout Out Don. If you aren't joining the podcast considerably going to say five star review, we would really appreciate it. If you don't want to The Professor review just don't leave a review, but don't leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding. You can reach out to the podcast at a spooktos at gmail dot com. You can go to our website at bookitos dot com and fill out the contact form. 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