Gina's Exorcism

Hello, Hello, This is Christina and Carmen and this is another episode of a Spooky Tales, a podcast for all things a spooky true crime hunted places, myths and legends in Latin America. And we have a fun, well sort of fun topic today. Oh extra seismo eo. But first, if you are on Patreon, you heard us talk about our time together. My ass well, neither one of us thought about recording a new link vlogs like we sometimes do, so we could have because we were out and about more so, my bad, my bad. But yeah, if you're over on Patreon at the lowest here you can hear our extra yapping about our time together. And before we get to our topic, we do have a listener's story. If you have a story that you want to send to us, you can email us Spooky Tales at gmail dot com. You can send it via DM on any of the socials. You can even leave it as a comment and we'll read it. We love receiving them. All right, are you ready already? Okay? This listener story is from Cassandra. Shout out Cassandra. This happened in twenty sixteen. I was dating my boyfriend, now my husband. I remember that night he came to see me. At that time, I had my son who was two years old, so I took him outside and we were talking in his car. I noticed the time it was almost three am, so I was like, I have to go inside. My son at that time had his little bed next to mine, so I grabbed him, laid him down with me, and started to fall asleep. So in that room there was two doors, one for the restroom and one that led to the living room slash kitchen. I remember laying there looking at the door that was leading to the kitchen when I felt something staring at me. I turned to the edge of the bed like where my feet were, which was in front of the door that leads into the restroom. I saw a tall shadow, like a skinny tall man. He was hunched over looking over me and my son on the bed. I screamed so loud for my mom and ran to turn the light on. Well where I saw the man. I had a picture frame of my son hanging and it fell when I turned the light on and it broke. Wow. I remember sleeping with the lights on the next day. I told my mom if she heard me scream, and she says she did, but she didn't think anything of it. Excuse me, Mom, what do you mean? Mom? Mom? We need to talk. Well. Later that weekend, my parents also saw it very clearly. They saw a shadow of a tall man run into their closet and they got scared as hell. I don't think my mom believed me at first, so she saw the shadow man herself. But weirds of always what happened at the house. That's the only time I actually saw something. I forgot to add. My mom said, I probably brought something inside with me because I came in at the witching hour and a spirit probably followed me in. Your mom is right, you know what? Yeah, Like they say nothing good happened after midnight, but especially three am. No one says that you just made that up. I think, yes, yeah, no, that's scary though. No, yeah, it is scary. I certainly wouldn't want to experience any of that, so certainly not. No, no, All right, So today we are talking about the extorcism of Gina. Gina was a first generation American of Colombian descent, and this happened during the height of the Tantic Panic. Oh Let's Satanic Panic. One of my favorite topics yeah, for anyone that does know. The Satanic Panic was a moral panic that occurred during the eighties and nineties, like from the eighties to the nineties. Yeah, well into the nineties. Yeah yeah. And during this time there were several allegations of Satanic ritual abuse and general feeling that the country was at war with Satan and his followers for the soul of the nation. Also, if anyone wants a wreck about this, there is a podcast by one of my faves, Sarah Marshall. Yes, what is it called the wo Am I making that up? It is, right, Yeah, I think so, And it's all about the Satanic Panic. It's really good, which I had no idea. It was so huge in Canada. Oh me either. So many things contributed to the panic of the Satanic Panic. It was the perfect recipe for disaster, all those things combining, right. So yeah, Three movies came out, all in proximity to each other. Rosemary's Baby in nineteen sixty eight, the Exorcists in nineteen seventy three, and then The Omen in nineteen seventy six. And I don't know, I don't remember. It's Rosemary's Baby based on a book. I know the Exorcist and the omen Are I think it is okay. So then on top of that, they were all based on books that came out not long before the movies. Like the books came out were immediate bestsellers. The movies were made people that don't read, because we know this country doesn't fucking read. Yeah, then more people were introduced to these movies and just like panic spread. And it was also around this time that the Church of Satan started. And then before Michelle remembers, which we'll talk about a little bit, after this, there was another insane book, the Satan Seller. Oh may God right, the same cellar you're purporting to be real events? They were it, they weren't it, but no one knew that at the time. And they're also like, you hear the events in the Satan Cellar and they're just like they like, you're looking at it with our twenty twenty six lens. Yeah, they sound insane. They sound like yeah, yeah, yeah, and you're wrong about has some really good episodes on the Satan Cellar. And Michelle remembers, oh both yeah. Yeah. So Michelle remembers the book was written by a Canadian psychiatrist with the name of Lawrence Pastor and his patient, the interned wife, and I believe he was married and left his wife for his patient, who he then turned into his wife, which of course is not ethical, not right at all. No, if anyone is doing satanic shit, it's these people who are then like the key reasons that the Satanic Panic became what it was, like they were the ones doing these diabolical things. Yeah, it's uh, every accusation is a confession type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh and actually the devil you know, has such a good episode on Michelle Remembers and the wife's toxic Sarah Marshall. Yeah, yeah, that's when I knew that he was or learned that he was married. Married. Yeah, and he was not a good guy obviously. Yeah. Michelle Smith of Michelle Remembers catapulted the Satanic Panic into the mainstream. The book claims that Lawrence helped his patient, Michelle, retrieve previously lost memories of satanic child ritual abuse. But like he was like feeding this shit to her, Like yeah he was. He was like making it up in his twisted little psychotic mind. Psychotic as in like not I don't know right, Like something is wrong, not right? Yeah, something is truly wrong on there to have like just thought up like it's like, maybe he should have written this Michelle, like you need to twist Michelle and her beliefs into this. You could just wrote a fiction book. Yeah, And so the book became a best seller and it helped spread the idea that satanic ritual abuse. So it was more common than we ever thought. And mind you, it wasn't to be clear, like after all of this was over, there was extensive studies done and there was like, of all the reported cases, not a single one was true. That doesn't mean people weren't abuse because you say this and then people are like when you're blying, people were abused, and it's like, okay, people were abused, but it was not in the name of Satan. Yeah. I think a big part of this is also, like, so child abuse was hidden brush and under the rug, a taboo topic that people didn't talk about, and it coincided with this satanic panic that child abuse was being talked about more. And I think people didn't want to accept that child abuse happens usually at the hands of parents and relatives and known people to those children, usually parents. Let me emphasize that, but no one wants to accept that parents will do such things, right, and so it's easier to say, oh, this is Satan, So this is Satan and his cult followers, right, But no, it's the parents. Yeah, and that's a big drive. I think of a lot of reiterations of the Satanic panic that we see today. Yeah, because we are seeing reiterations, I mean not to like get too deep into it, but Q noon and pizza gaate, Like, yes, it's very clear that people were abused, but it wasn't in the name of these weird rituals. It's because these are rich men in power abusing people. But it didn't have any to deal with pizzas even if you know, no, no, no. Yeah. So this brings us to the nineteen eighty seven McMartin preschool abuse trial, which was also something else that was fueling all of this, right, yeah, Like if you think about key events, yeah, in the Satanic panic, this is one of them for sure. And again we highly recommend the year wrong about episodes of this or try Devil, you know, yeah, because they talk about them both. But yeah, this trial included strange child sexual abuse allegations, which fuel the Satanic panic, and it became common amongst Americans to talk about Satanic colts and techniques that an everyday person could use to perhaps and cover their own lost memories of Satanic ritual abuse. The topic became so popular that it was constantly talked about on primetime talk shows. In nineteen eighty eight, Heeraldo Diberta covered the topic on his show. The episode is called devil Worship, exposing Satan's underground. During the show, Ozzy Osbourne showed up, and so did Sean Tellers and Charles Manson. Do you know what Sean Sellers is? It sounds familiar? Okay, let me just give a brief But so Seawan Sellers. He was a serial killer and he and his best friend, Richard Howard had discussed how it would feel to kill someone. Then, after this conversation, Sean Sellers confessed to the murder of Robert Paul bauer Bower, who was a Circle K convenience store clerk who refused to sell beer to Richard and Richard Shawn's best friend, and so the friend Howard. Richard Howard said he was present but did not participate in the murder, while Sean wanted to see what it felt like to kill someone. Then he decided to kill his mom right after this over a five over his girlfriend because the mom didn't like the girlfriend, and he attempted to do it twice. The first time he tried to do it was with rat poison in her coffee. Then on March fifth, nineteen eighty six, he shot and killed his mom and his stepdad. Oh my god, and they were asleep, they were sleep when he did this. And so at his trial, after you know, being arrested for this, he said he was a practicing Satanist, which like then made this all go crazy in the media. Like the media frenzy over this case was wild because first this is like a horrible thing for like a because he was a teen, yes, he was a teen sixteen when he first did it. I think it was sixteen under eighteen for sure. And he said that he had read he claimed that he was possessed by a demon named user Rate oh when he did this. And he later said that he read the Satanic Bible by Anton Levey one hundred times. Oh yeah, between the ages fifteen and sixteen when the crents were committed. Oh, I just read that right now. So his lawyers also tried to argue that he was addicted to dungeons and dragons. Oh okay, yeah, I can't remember that. And he the jury didn't, like, you know, say, oh no, it's because he was possessed that he was found guilty of the homicides. But then he became a Christian while in prison, as they all do. Yeah, as they all do. And then he he would do a bunch of like, uh, media appearances denouncing War One. Yeah. Yeah, and he's also in documentaries about Satanism. So yeah, and Oprah Winfree need to be held accountable fout the harm they have called United States and society. Yes, yeah, Let's see the other guests, Zina Levey, daughter of Anton Levey, who you just talked about, and he was the founder of the Church of San m HM. And so the first part showed murders and suicides that have been blamed on Satanism, then all the segments with these guests all talking about Satanism, and then a segment of kids talking about abuse they went through under the hands of Satanists, which I don't think there's ever been a proven case of actual Saintanists doing ritual abuse on children. That's what I'm saying, Like abuse did happen. No one is saying that didn't happen, but it didn't happen in the name of Satanism. Yeah, yeah, Satanism. And then the parents of the McMartin preschools were preschool were there as well. Also an FBI agent who was going through the anatomy of a Satanic ritual crime all made up mind you. Yeah, And so it was like back to back to back coverage of this stuff presented by someone who was a respected journalist was epicize. One was was yeah because his show is I don't know about back then, but now it is considered like trash TV. Yeah, And like every time that the show cut to a new segment or two ads, he would be like, you shouldn't be watching this, like it was so sensationalized, Like, oh, I've warned you so many times, like you shouldn't watch this, but if you're still watching, you're gonna hear about all this horrible stuff. Like it was so sensationalized. And then in nineteen eighty nine, Oprah herself aired an episode focusing on allegations of Satanic ritual abuse. I didn't watch this one, So I don't know, but I'm guessing it was very similitizational. Yeah, yeah, to the other one. On March fourth, nineteen ninety, the highly respected Cardinal John O'Connor of Saint Patrick's Cathedral helped propel the narrative forward when he told per parishioners that the devil was real and his evil was spreading. He told church gores that people like Charles Manton and an increase in cults and black masses were proof of it spread. What did you mean by black mass? Oh? Like yeah, black masks like the Church of Satan. Yeah. Yeah. Then he shocked his personers by announcing that the church had already approved two exorcisms to red people of demon possession. Yeah. Because when I first heard about this, I was like, well, if you're in a Catholic church, you hear all the time about the devil. But I think when he added on we've already done to exorcisms, that was like, what the what what? Yeah, because you hear about the theoretical metaphorical devil who's tepting you into sin, but not like demon possession, right, yeah, And then to hear while in church like yeah, and by the way, we have done too, for sure, exorcisms like this year and in this climate, right, yeah, which is already like all of this stuff is going on, and then they hear this, you know. And so it was during this satanic panic and climate of fear of Satan that Gina's case rose to the national stage. Gina was a sixteen year old girl from Florida who whose mother and church leaders claimed that she was possessed by demotic spirits in April nineteen ninety one. Gina's story played out in several living rooms across America when ABC's twenty twenty aired a too part report on her exorcism twenty twenty always on the wrong side of shit, yeah, most of the time. Like sometimes they have good reports, yeah, but sometimes like they're like a kid to Oprah and hit outoiveta with their sensationalism. Survivors or family members of vicdor Yeah who come forwarda yeah, like twenty twenty made this up, right about this misrepresented? This met with them, but yeah, they like misrepresented like what I say, and blah blah. Yeah, that happens a lot. And before we get into the events of the exorcism, it's worth noting that until the late twentieth century. Under the Catholic Church, extressists were anonymous and the performance of exorcisms remained a secret, which makes sense, right, because if these things are real, you don't want sensationalism, right this keeping it anonymous, keeping it secret prevented sensationalism. And you don't want to spread panic, right, because that's exactly what happened when that O'Connor guy said it to his parishioners. It caused panic, and that's like, you don't want to like panic people. So like, yes, part of the Catholic Church are scaring people into obedience, right, but like mass panic is not it, right, And so exorcisms are not supposed to be televised, no, but Gina's exorcism was approved by Joseph Keith Simons, the bishop of the Diocese of Palm Beach, to be televised. Palm Beach always on the wrong side of Florida, wrong side of history of Florida. So yeah, he was the one who approved and authorized taping in the exorism, and he said he hoped it would help quote conteract the dia bolical activities around us end quote. That quote feels us mind you, if anyone was involved in diabolical activities, it was a Bishop Joseph Keith Simmons because he was sexually abusing boys there it is, of course he was, and probably all this to bring attention away from himself, right, That's why they do this shit. Bishop Joseph was forced to resign in nineteen ninety eight after publicly admitting that he had abused five boys. And it was actually the first US Catholic bishop to lose his position over the sexual abuse of minors. Was this around the time? Was this during the time of like Pope John Paul It was ninety eight, So yeah, right, I think so. I think so then because there was like the biggest scandal of the Catholic Church was during this time when they were like found to be hiding the abuse, which I'm assuming that this falls under that. Yeah, I'm sure. His successor as a Bishop of pomp Beach, Anthony O'Connell, was also forced to resign in two thousand and two after admitting to sexually busney boys. This is a real syntantic panic, this this right here. Yeah, the religious because it's not just the Catholic Church. People. People then make like the joke that spread is like the old Catholic priests. But it's like, no, this happens in every religion, some more than others, but they don't get as televised, Like there was no mass reporting of like the rampant abuse in I don't know a lot of it like ends up coming forward to for like thousands of because there's a clear hierarchy in leadership. That's all churches are like that, Like some denominations are independent, they have no higher ups, and so then who is overseen anything? You know what I mean? Right, And this this schedule of the nineties into the two thousands involved the hiding from the higher ups in the Catholic Church. So yeah, no, you're right, you're right, but it's important to note that this abuse happens in all religions. Yeah. So Anthony O'Connell was forced to resign in two thousand and two after admitting to sexually abusing boys. Wow, look at that and the same in the same role, the same diocese. Like that's wild to me. Yeah, And so Joseph Keith Simmons only admitted to everything because a survivor who was Philly three by the time he disclosed, which is what happens. Yeah, decades later, man, he came forward to the Archbishop of Miami and disclosed that he had been abused by Joseph when he was serving as an aultar boy. Wow. And so yeah, after being questioned, he admitted to not only abusing that person, but four other boys as well. And who knows there could be more, right, there probably is more. Yeah. During the questioning, Joseph Keith said he had confessed during confession to another priest and was told to avoid alcohol and remain chased, which means abstinent, right, Yeah, okay, and yeah, so that's like that's that was part of the cover up there, that person he confessed to, the prez he confessed too, started that thing and just told them to avoid alcohol and remain abstinent. Like this man just admitted to a crime, multiple crimes. Yeah. So yeah, this is the actual diabolical man who authorized genus Ecorism to be taped. Wow. And so the journalists who covered this or Tom Gerald and Katie Couric, who is renown in her own right, actually introduced this topic and wow, as well as Hugh Downs. I don't actually don't know who he is. You know who Katie Curic is, Yeah, that's why I recognized. Yeah, and so yeah. The report started with Katie telling viewers nothing like this has ever been seen on American Tell truly hadn't because it hadn't been authorized ever to be recorded, right, right, and Katie's words were followed by warning from the network that viewers might hear see content that could be too disturbing for some part one other report starts off with Gerald explaining to viewers what an exorcism is and how the Church came across Gina's story. According to Gerald, Gina had been plagued by seizures for several years before her mother Felisa, approached the Catholic Church for help. Gina's seizures were apparently violent. She was spit vomits, scream and strange voices, and have visions of demons. According to Felisa. She told ABC that she initially took her daughter to a psychic healer, who told her Gina had something bad inside of her, but Gina only got worse after that. Okay, I was wondering at which one she took her to the doctor, but she does, yeah, yeah. Felisa then took Gina to Miami Children's Hospital Psychiatric Ward, where Gina was admitted for two months. During her stay, doctor Warren Schlinger diagnosed and treated Gina for recurring psychotic episodes. The type of treatments received was never disclosed. Doctor Schlinger told ABC she was actively psychotic, very agitated, and was having more difficulty functioning even when it was related to basic self care, but that two months day didn't really do anything to help Gina. Gina told the reporter, I was sick with these evil things every time I was coming out with these voices, with voices. Oh. So they were desperate for help, and Felicia turned to the local Catholic church for help. At one point they had been participating members of the church, but stopped attending. But either way, the church heard her out and referred her case to the priest who had performed two extracisms mentioned by carden Old John O'Connor, who freaked that was parishioners, was like, you know, we did do exorcisms already. By the way, the devil is real as fuck, but we don't have that priest full name. ABC did not disclose that information. They just identified him as father a right because exorcists are supposed to be anonymous. Mind you, the whole exorcism process is also supposed to be a secret. Yeah, but that didn't matter, just that the father remained anonymous. Father A and his assistant father James LeVar, took an interest in the case and with a team of specialists, they spent six months thoroughly investigating Genus case to determine if there was any possession, because that's like the one thing the Catholic Church will do. They won't just do exorcism out of nowhere. Yeah, And like I remember, there was a statistic about after the exorcism, the rise of people seeking exorcisms increasing, but like the Catholic Church wasn't investigating all of these and so it was actually different denominations that were doing all these exorcisms that don't have the same rules as the Catholic Church, which surprisingly we've talked about it before, yeah, in the one of the previous episodes, But they have a lot of rules about extraorcisms, I think a couple of times. Yeah. Psychotherapist Carol Rotza was part of the team that initially validated Gina for the church, and she told ABC that her interaction with Gina was frightening. Carol said, my first contact with her sent chills throughout my body. That sounds frightening, Yeah, very frightening, Carol Rotza, father A, father LeVar, and others who valiated Gina claim their investigation revealed that during her outbursts, she could levitate and hone in information. She had no way of knowing a couple of the signs, right, Uh, yeah, levitation. There is no other explanation for that. No, either either everyone else is hallucinating or it happened. I don't know, because how to I mean, they could be like feeding off each other, you know. But still, father A told ABC that Gina even knew about an exorcism he had performed the week before, and she correctly named those involved. But how do we know that other she'moso archbishop didn't tell her. Was she in the church? When Cardinal O'Connor to corspisioners. Right, the group of investigators concluded that Gina was indeed possessed and submitted a formal request to be granted permission by the church to perform an exorcism on Gina, and there are some specific signs the Catholic Church has deemed must be present. For a person to be considered under demonic possessions. Yeah, using lego just unknown to the person or people around them, having extraordinary strength or resistance to physical restraint, knowledge of events or people that the person could not have possibly known in aversion to holy objects or places such as holy water or churches, self harming and displaying violent or aggressive behavior, elements or conditions that cannot be diagnosed or treated medically, Having hallucinations or hearing voices, an abrupt change in behavior or personality, sudden spiritual dryness. I don't know what that means, Maybe like they can't feel God anymore, or something like that, they lose, like their sense of faith. Maybe I don't know. I'm guessing. I don't think I've heard that before. Yeah, and the last one expelling of objects or animals through the mouth. Yuck. Gina had quite a few of these. Yeah. The request was approved, and part two of the report starts with a woman cleaning out a space inside the convent or. The exorcism will take place without Gena's knowledge. She doesn't even know what's going on at this point. Man, I feel like they should get her consent. I feel like you should get the demons consent. I feel like they should have the permission of the demon inside of her to perform the actorcism. Yeah yeah, Father A told Gerald, the top journalist, secrecy ensures the demons cannot prepare for this surprise encounter with the exorcist. Okay, yes, yeah, I guess, yeah, yeah sure. The team brought together to assist father A with the exorcism included psychotherapist Carol Ratza, a nurse, a doctor, a Spanish translator, additional priests and people to help restrain Gina, and The ordeals started off with the masks, followed by Father A given giving Gina a glass of holy water to try to draw the demons out to drink. I believe to drink. Yeah. What is in holy water? Can you not drink it? I wonder if it's like more fresh or like what you know from the natural springs of heaven. Does it come down from the heavens? Someone tell me what is holy water? Does someone just declare it holy? Like I think that's what it is? Yeah? Yeah. Father A then asked Gina some questions, hoping the demons inside her would identify themselves to help give him an idea of what he was up against, but they didn't respond. Gina just started to vomit. That's all that was the response. That's like, oh you want to know, yeah, style like the Exorcist movie. Yeah, just project to vomiting into the I thought that doesn't happen. I watched the video. So then the confrontation intensifies and Gina starts to speak in strange voices. At one point, in the strange voice, she said, Gina said to me, I have to go, and I tell you I don't want to go. Do you understand? Yikes. Yeah. Gina then turned violent while the group prepares to start the extorcism, and she speaks in tongues while the group is holding her down. She's yelling, get out of here. I don't want to leave. I command the evil to leave. Father A would reply to her, and she's like me, don't want to leave, me don't want to leave and yeah, And that goes on for a couple of minutes, and she's staring father Aid down, who's holding across her face, very intense. So then Gina finally says, in a childlike voice, my name is Minda. My name is Mina. Oh yeah, gross, And so father A commands Miinga to leave Gina's body and it seems to work. Gina kind of goes back to normal after this, So then they start asking Gina about the demons inside of her, and Gina says two of the ten demons inside of her are named to Zion and Miinga. Gina tells father Minga or Minka, I don't know she is Colombian after all, I guess nine, Na, I don't know why that was. It shouldn't be as funny as it was. Well, doesn't manage mean vagina like in some European countries. Oh, I didn't know that. I'm pretty sure. Hold on, it's a vulgar slang term referring to female genitals, commonly used the UK. I guess, oh, okay, that's why I was laughing. I don't know why you're laughing. I just thought it sounds funny, But no, it's funnier. Gina tells father A that Zion is an African demon. This feels racist. And Mina or Minja, I don't know Minka Minika Oh, I didn't even say. I was saying, you're like minch Minge. Minka is a short female deman. Then they start the exorcism. The group surrounds Gina. Father A starts rescinding prayers from the book The Right of Exorcism while he holds the cross to Gina's forehead, and Gina doesn't take this well. She starts screaming blood curdling screams, and she tries to push father A off, and the team quickly restrains her. They tie her arms and her legs to a chair to stop her from trying to hit them and to stop her from levitating. But honestly, they should have just left her untied so we could actually see the levitation. Well they couldn't do that, I think, yeah, but this would prove everything right, right right. Gina tries to free herself from the chair, the group spraying around her. She's screaming sinners or someone screaming sinners. She oh, she is. She's screaming for Minka. Inside of Minja is screaming Ninja, inside of Gina is screaming sinners. The world is getting worse, more wars are coming. You understand, Jesus is going to take all of us, going to burn a lot of people. And you know what, Minja wasn't wrong? Now, Minka was right. More whares did come? Yeah, unjust violent, colonial, imperilous wars and then Gina's eyes roll back she starts switching between voices. The exorcism goes on for several hours damn, until it finally ends with Father Aid demanding that Miinga, Zion and all other spirits Exita's body for a final time. And then Gina seems to come out of a trance. After this, she kisses the cross and is told she's free to go. That's the sign that she's good. You know, she can write like she can she can kiss the cross. Yeah, like it doesn't burn when she touches that. And so then they go home. But it wasn't over. Oh no, it didn't actually work well. Gina's mom called father A to let him know that some of the voices had returned to haunt her in her bedroom. So Father A goes to Gina's house and he performs an actorcism on the house to help further remove the demons. But that didn't fix everything. Oh my. Gina returned to Miami's Children's Hospital psychiatric ward for a two weeks day, and doctor Schlinger, who treated her again, told Gerald, the journalist that she did seem to be responding to the medication a lot better than the first time. So maybe the actism did help. Yeah, I read that she had taken or she was given help at all, but so I think that's how it's pronounced an antipsychotic. Oh, so maybe she was hallucinating. Whatever it was, maybe the combination of the two things. M hm. So two months later, ABC went to go follow up and they learned that Gina was back at school and she felt much better. She was still on medication, like psychotropic medication, but she thanked God for liberating her from her evil spirits. I feel like the medications at kind of doing the heavy lifting here, but possibly possibly that's just me. That's just no. I don't know. I don't know, and I don't know what happened to Gina since then. Hopefully she continues to do well. Is no longer plagued by the demons? Yeah? Hopefully. Yeah. And uh. When this episode aired, twenty nine million viewers watched. Damn, that's a lot. Yeah, and it was criticized for being uneth the goal makes sense. Yeah, A lot of viewers thought that Gina had mental health issues going on and that it shouldn't have been televised, especially be the show with other age. Yeah I could see that. I agree with them. Yeah, I do too, I do too. Yeah, but let's go watch this unethical thing. Let's do it. Boy, here we go fast and furious Jesus bribe. During a break while the team prepares to begin the right of exorcism, Gina becomes file. And the name of Jesus. I command the spirit. I was able to leave. Now we don't want to leave. Well, da Jesus. I was trying to struss her heart. She really wants how she has to help us and man the spirit, and all of a sudden, that insidious face changed where Gina was no longer present. That's when the entity started manifest herself by speaking and revealing who he was. Minga. I command Minga, and the. Person undergoing this say stop all, I don't enough. We have to be sure that it's the person speaking. You want pain, I'll give you pain. If during the course it's the entity masking himself and trying to make us believe that I'm fine, leave me alone. This is where we continue and to we're sure that we have what we started. Why aren't you prying here. No, you're not. It's it's quite disturbing to see. Yeah, I don't think this should have been allowed. No, I agree, Like the Catholic cultural Catholic in me is like, oh, this is scary, but also the other part of me that is just concerned about the well being of this underage girl who with something's clearly wrong. Yeah, right to have ended up where she is, and then it just it seems a predatory to be watching it. Exploitative, exploitative. Yeah, and yeah, when you hear her screams, it's like, oh, I'm a little scared. Yeah, but I think it's like the it's like feeding off, she's fitting off what's happening. Yeah, potentially, you know, yeah, I could see that. I could see that completely. Have you read A head Full of Ghosts? It kind of makes me think of this, and I wonder if this was an inspiration to the author, Paul Tremblay, because A Headful of Ghosts is a girl who's supposedly going through a demonic possession and then like a TV crew comes out to film it. But at the same time, the girl is like worried about the financials of the family, because I think that the dad losses job, and I'm not going to spoil anything, but basically that's the premise that a TV show comes. So she's under a lot of stress, but potentially maybe could make money from this, right, and a TV crew comes and they witness things like we're seeing in this twenty twenty episode. The voices the because it's at some point you can kind of hear that she's saying something that doesn't really sound like English or Spanish, right, but it's like speaking in tongues. But it reminds me like people speaking tongues and other charismatic type of Christianity. And no one says they're possessed right there, exactly. It's the opposite of demion possession. They're touched by the spirit and that's why they speak in tongues. But it's the vibes of everyone dancing, screaming, crying that feeds into this. Yeah, so you know, wherever she is, hopefully Gina has a good life. Yeah, and yeah, that was the ecstacism of Gina. All right, before we go, do you have any spooky recommendations? Actually I do. What did I read or listen to that I couldn't stop thinking about? And now we don't remember it now that we record every other week about this. Yeah, don't remember. Oh. Dating After the End of the World by Geneva Rose. Oh, how was it? It was really good. I couldn't put it down. I read it like in three or four days because of that. But this is a zombie apocalyptic story, so let me just read the description. Casey Pearson grew up with a doomsday prepping father. At eighteen, tired of living an unconventional life, she left home, vowing never to return. More than a decade later, a mysterious viral outbreak changes everything, including the people and infects, turning them into zombie like creatures. It's the end of the world and no one saw it coming, well except Casey's father. With no police left to run and danger looking around every corner, Casey is forced to return home. Upon arrival, she's surprised to find that her data has hunkered down with the group of survivors, including her arch nemesis, Blake Morrison, the high school bully who made Casey's teenage years a living hell. While struggling to live on the compound, facing outside threats and surviving alongside her handsome enemy, Casey will learn that although the world has changed, hers is just beginning. Okay, And this is like an enemy to lovers story. Yeah, it is an enemy to lover story. I didn't when I first got it. It was because it was on sale. I don't necessarily look for enemy ce lovers like kind of tropes, tropes, romantic tropes in general. I know a lot of people don't like the enemy ci lovers trope, especially when it's a bully yeah, because they're like, oh, he's mean. A lot of it was how she perceived things, but he did kind of bully her when they were younger, whatever it was. Whatever. They're both adults now. Yeah, yeah, so there's always the world is over, it doesn't matter anymore. But she's still really mad about it. It's kind of funny though throughout. But yeah, like some parts were funny. I kind of like some twigs, twists, twigs, some twists. I did it eat a twist today. That's probably why it's on my mind. Some twists were were I like, I saw it coming, like I like would read something, I'm like, oh, I bet you this is gonna happen, And it did. But I still enjoyed it. It was a good time. It just I love zombie stuff and I feel like it's not often where there's like a romance in there. Yeah, it's like it was different for me, and I'm like, I want to read more books like that. Yeah, okay, okay, it's good. I may check it out. I do love a zombie anything, so I will say so the her bully was a Navy seal or some shit like that, I'm not reading this, Okay, that's so it makes sense, I guess for the story. Okay, you know, but I'm not here for glazing the military at all, especially not the special forces, right, the most psychotic right, So there's that. I couldn't give it five stars because of that. Okay, yeah, I don't know about that anymore then, but it was still good. Okay, okay, okay, Well I haven't told you about Hive. If I watched High if it's free on to be, and you know what, for being on to be, for being free, I think it's worth checking out. Also, if like people are looking for like Latino movies to support, this is one of them. I made a bit about her on TikTok and then people are like I hated this movie, and I was like all right, well I thought it was fun. But basically, this girl is trying to say about for college and she takes this babysitting job and this like supposed to be the supposedly really nice neighborhood in town where like all the rich people in Hawaii, and like all the workers are black and Hispanic, and her brother already works there as a gardener. And then she goes on her first day, like she just goes wrong. And you know what, I got to interview the director and I forgot to like even put it out like as an episode or anything. So maybe I'll do that add it on to this maybe fun little bonus. Yeah. Yeah. And so the main character is Sasha played by Tamilt her name so Chi, yes, yes, And she gets to this babysitting job and like she just goes wrong. These kids are not all right. They're part of a hive, if you will say, part of a hive, yes, yes, And they move altogether very very zombie like, whether being controlled or like moving like you know, but parasitic maybe yes, yes. And the kids to feed this thing, the hive have been like taking workers and workers have been going missing. Oh my god. And so she's taken, and then her brother has the savor. I feel like this is like a exploration of the exploitation of the working class by the higher classes. Yes, because the brother at some point it tells uh Sasha, like you just need to lay low, do the work and leave, Like, do the work and leave, stay invisible, and it just I mean, how many of us have heard that, you know, stay invisible, don't make a scene, don't stand up for yourself, don't sign up for yourself. Yeah, and but then when she's taken by the thing, he has no choice but to fly back to no longer just do the work, just high, just lay low. So then they had to like defeat this thing. And yeah, I mean there's issues with it. It does fall under like the trope of like the Black Eyed Eyes, which I did not like, but I don't know, I felt it felt like a fun low stake watch, you know, but still heading on some heavy topics like I don't I don't think. I don't think it was bad, Like I was like not shocked, but like some comments that I was getting, like oh I hated the ending. I was like, Okay, it's a little cheesy, but I don't it didn't bother me. I had a time and especially if you again, if you're like seeking independent, creative, different stories to check out, this is definitely worth checking out. Maybe i'll insert the interview right here. Very nice to meet you. I watched the movie yesterday and it was it was so fun. It also reminded me of a little bit of Rosadio, like I feel like there were similar themes. It's like family. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. First of all, thank you for taking the time to check out both of my movies, Rosario and this new one, Hive that's coming out next week. I'm really excited about it. I did have a question because I remember Hive was a short first. How was it going from a short to a full length movie? Yeah, you know, it's interesting. This one goes all the way back to when there were the writers and actress strikes in La I was about to do. I was actually about to shoot Rosario and we had to stop completely because of these strikes. So I was like, you know, back home after prepping this movie, like what am I going to do? And you know, my friends and crew and actors were all sort of asking themselves the same thing, and I said let's go make a short next week. So it came together really really quickly, and we shot it in a playground near my house here in LA And yeah, it was a really fun, like just a poppy, colorful horror short, basically like a little scene. And I didn't really have the plans for the future yet. It was a short to make a short, and then you know, a couple of folks said, you know, you should make this into something bigger. There's something here. So we built it out. We built up the world. We brought in the same actors who was in the short, so Chigo Menus, who was fantastic, and two we came in and really supported it. And when it came to making the feature, I was like, what is that thing that's going to give you more weight? And we found this thematic idea that this creature in this playground, in this gated suburb also target It specifically targets nannies and gardeners and babysitters and working class folks, and I think that just elevated the feature to something that felt real and relationship driven too. M Yeah, it was. It was so fun and so different, I think, and there was like elements of like body horror, but like also suburban horror. I was not expecting that body horror, but I should have because Little had it too. I love bodyhoor. I love that gore and that kind of instant reaction of an audience so that they see something a little gnarly and everybody jumps. That's like a high to me. It's so fun with that, and Body Horror does that really well. Yes, that was my reaction when I saw the first like instant in this movie. I was like Ugh. For me, horror is like one of the best genres to explore deeper themes, and I feel like there was a message in this movie about the American dream for immigrants, children of immigrants, and conforming lay Low, especially when we hear the brother straight up Tellsagia like lay Low, survive like work, and with that the intention with the Hive. Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think the first thing I wanted to do is just make a really poppy, colorful horror movie set in the day, real time that subverts the typical horror aesthetic, but within that tell a story of two siblings, working class siblings. She's it's a first time babysitter and she's there to save up for college. The brother is, you know, has his head down and is working, kind of like the folks I grew up around with and then the family I grew up in. That was all about that sort of mindset of you know, work hard and achieve your goals that way, but also kind of keep your head down a little bit and you know, sometimes be invisible to just achieve those goals. And I think that's a mindset that a lot of immigrants have, a lot of working class folks have, and I think it's something that I wanted to explore. This creature that kind of feeds on that and targets and exploits that. Yeah, No, that was That was amazing And I feel like such a timely time for a movie like. This, I think, Yeah, I think so absolutely. Another thing I noticed is sugar and how it played a role here. When he gives her the candy, he tells her like to remember where you're from, and it kind of reminded me of Sousto and like when you're I don't know if it's like a thing in all that in American countries, but in Mexico, like if something so shocking happened to you they would be like, oh, here's some tanasuka for this, Like so you feel better with that? Like the thought behind this, that's really I love that. I actually hadn't made that connection, but I think that ties into it. And for me, it was like, Okay, what is going to defeat this this creature that is essentially a high mind made of children? What can sort of overdrive these children? I was like, oh, of course, like a sugar rush, But beyond that, it was like, let's tether it to something that this brother and the sister have from their community, from the working class neighborhood. And it was these little like go meetas this little dude says, these little candies of sugar that their auntie would make and their father would make. Like that gave it kind of like a weight and a cultural element. I guess I'm spoiling the movie because now people know how to defeat our monster, but I think it was like something that felt both fitting for the creature and also the. Themes of the character. Yeah, originally, originally it was actually like a hot sauce was the thing they brought it, Like hot sauce that they're dmade, and that's how they beat the creature, but I think Sugar is more connected to the kids in the world. Yes, I love that, and it also I don't know Sugar's so demonized. But then for like so many of us growing up, it was again something that like made you feel normal again after I don't know, something scary. Yes, yeah, I. Think so, and it's like very it's there's a culture element to it as well. Yes. My other question is do you have a personal ghost story? You know, even on this movie, it's it was interesting at the end. We were filming in an abandoned water park that was like really deep in the woods, and you know, you're filming overnight. At like six pm to six am, and the place. Was full of these like rusty, creepy kid water park pieces, and we brought in like hundreds of dolls for the scene. If you remember, it's like one of the under the scenes and we're. Driving home, exhausted, and we just felt like really like a presence in a vehicle that had followed us out of this park, and my cinematographer was crying and I felt it too, and the driver pulled over and it felt weird, you know. And in the next day we asked the producers like what is with that park, Like it's just a weird it's a heavy place, and it was they didn't want say anything at first, but it was built. This water park was built on an indigenous bureau ground. Like literally, Poulter guys. Yeah, And we suspected that it had lashed onto the dolls that we brought into the set because one of the dolls was very human in porcelain and it had real hair, like human hair. It was a very creaky doll. So we ended up burying that doll in the forest that kind of give this entity like that kind of acknowledgement. And I believe in that stuff one hundred percent. And I think you feel it. And especially when you're making films that touch on darker themes and you're in places that sometimes maybe you shouldn't be. I think that's it's a very powerful experience. Yes, yeah, And I think you could tell the growing up like Latino, and I think these stories just have like a place in all of our lives, like you just grow up with them with like La Yourna and all these things, and it comes across and not just this movie, but like Studio where like you believe it comes across like I don't know, believable, I guess yeah. And I grew up in those like folk tales and legends, the campfire stories of the monster in the woods and the Guardians and the stars and all that I think is the ghosts to a lot of like ghost stories. And I have some aunts who. Were into like let's say, Bluhidia and communicating with the beyond. So I've learned a lot of that and grew up with that, and I think that inspires all my movies in a way. M Yes, and then I did see you were from Columbia, right. Yes, I was born invo with that, and I grew up in Florida and South Florida. And there's so many like unique. I feel like there's there's certain stories that tie all of Latin American together, like like your own Ice everywhere she travels, but like a story like La Parta Sola is like only I feel like Columbia. So glad you brought that up. I'm actually my next movie, which I've already shot, is very inspired. By Patasla and Wow, Maderemonte is another Colombian story. It blends both of those, and that was a huge inspiration for this movie. For this next movie that I'm doing, it's called The Mouth of the Furnace, So just keep an eye out for that one too. Oh that sounds so cool. That was gonna be my next question if there was gonna be like a future project tying in like very specific Colombian legends and so wow, that's yes, fighting And we. Shot this movie deep in the jungle. It's full of that kind of indigenous flore It's more of a fairy tale like Pans Labyrinth, Devil's Backbone and that movie. It has a very different feel than this one. So if people liked Rosario and Hive, I just keep an eye out for this next one. Oh. I will be seated. I will for sure. And any last message for anyone that's like maybe on the fence of like watching Hive first, like everyone should just watch it anyway, But any message for like those people like why should they watch it? Yeah, I guess something we need to touch on, Like the the act that we brought on this movie is fantastic. Sochi Gomez is amazing. She was America Chavez and doctor Strange and she won Dancing with the Stars, which feels like a very different world than this. But this movie is like a choreography to it, to the way the camera moves, to the way the monsters move, and she's the best. So you're a fan of Soaching or fan of Aaron Domingus, who's our lead actor, I think this movie is worth checking out, and also for something that subverts your typical horror sthetic, like if you feel like you've seen it all, I think this one brings something new in weaponizing color and brightness and daytime. Yes, like a playground is such a happy place. The playground itself is so colorful, yellow, green, the blue, I think the slide was blue. And then like the creepiness that is happening in the playground, just like why are these things together? Yeah, we want people who watch this movie to like see playgrounds differently from now on, kind of what Jaws did with the sharks and the ocean. It's like a playground is a happy place until it's not. Yes, yes, now I don't want to take my kids to the playground. No, but it was so fun. It was so fun. Great, Well, thank. You for watching the movie, and yeah, really appreciating time. Thank you, thank you. But yeah, I mean it's free on two B So yeah, those were our speaker recommendations. A reminder again, if you like skip, well, I don't know, I guess if you skipped the ending of episodes, you're not gonna hear this anyway, but maybe we should say it in the beginning. Yeah, we are running every other week schedule because I have gone back to school. I'm on my third class now, so I'm doing it. I'm doing it, and yeah, that's why we're every other week. And so yeah, we'll see you next next week, next next week, Bye bye. Book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and what the hell both don shout out. Don if you aren't joying the podcast considerably, going to say five star review, we would really appreciate it. If you don't want to the professtar review, just don't leave a review. But don't leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding. You can reach out to the podcast at Spookytoes at gmail dot com. You can go to our website at pookitos dot com and fill out the contact form. If you want to support the podcast, you can join our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. Eight dollar members get an exclusive keychain. It's super cool. I got new ones and these ones are huge. And if you want to support but you can or don't want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can also get some merch. You can find sure Says say Spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie. I love the beanie. There's also a hat. 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