Haunted Family Stories & the Mexico City Museum Heist

Hello, Hello, This is Christina and Carmen and this is Spooky Tales, the podcast for all things as spooky myths, legends, tented places, the paranormal in Latin America, also true crime, and we're back to normal today. We have two topics, one paranormal, one true crime. It is still a shorter episode though, and for everyone else, we just yapped a little bit on Patreon, which if you remember, you have access to. It's all nonsense, but we do it now. Before we get into our topics, we have a listener story and if you have a story for us, you can email us Spooky Tales at gmail dot com. You can submit it on our discord. You can leave it as a comment on any of the socials. Maybe not TikTok because it's dying. I don't know, but yeah, you can do all those things. You can call it a spooky hotline. So yeah, Carmen, are you ready to read this listener story? I am. So. This is from Havey. According to legend, Hicker Pass, which connects Watsonville, California to Gilroy, California, is haunted. People usually see the ghost of a woman in a red dress. She's not wearing white I know, but if they're not wearing white, they're all was wearing red. That's true, that's the other color. But this story is a little different. I once picked up a passenger from Watsonville and gave him a ride all the way to Mount Madonna. Or that one restaurant is at at the very top. That what it gets to, that Mount Madonna, not the very top, right where the restaurant at. Yeah. Before I dropped him off, I asked him where do you live? And he told me here at the back of the restaurant, there's some homes. Once he got off, I was getting another request for a ride. In that quick three seconds it took me, he vanished and I don't know where he left so quick. I turned on my high beams and he wasn't there anymore. So I'm not sure if it was a real person or a ghost ghost. I mean, three seconds is not long enough to get anywhere, so no, no, So yeah, I'm happy that was a ghost. Yeah, sorry to say, yeah, I was good about to say. Sorry to say, but you saw a ghosts yeah? Yeah, all right. And for the paranormal topic, we translated our mom stories from our failed Spanish episode, which I was so to publish. We had such a good time recording. Yeah we looked so cute. There was video. Yeah, Milo was with us the whole time. M h. And yeah it was I was so sad. So but we translated those stories and we're now reading them in English. Here they are Our moms of Lito's used to live in an apartment building in guad Dacara, and one of the apartments in that building was haunted by a young woman. At least that's what everyone else said. The story everyone was told is that when apartment buildings were under construction, a woman died in one of them, and once the apartments were done and people were living there, they could hear her cries during the night. Our mom never heard her, luckily, but almost everyone else did, especially her grandparents, because the apartment where the women died was right in front of them, in front of theirs, and for some reason, her grandparents could not get away from the ghosts because the next place they lived was also haunted. And this was another part of Laka. This was a house. It had a patio just past the kitchen, and this house was longer than it was wider. I think those houses have a name but I don't know the name. Yeah, there was like a style and the house people people, well, no they'll know, just one of those long houses, like a long ring tingle, if you will. And the part with the patio was in the dark. In that patio they had a hammock between some orange trees. And Mibelan that's what we call our great grandma. I love that hammock. She used it all the time, especially when it was super hot. So during one of these super hot nights, she went out there, and at this point it was around midnight. She went out back and got in the hammock and fell asleep. Some time later, everyone else in the house woke up to hear her screaming in the middle of the road in front of the house. She had drag marks on her aunt scratches, and when she finally calmed down, she was able to tell them what happened. So for some time, Mibela had been seeing two shadows standing near her hammock, and of course it shook her. I don't enough to stop using the hammock, though, right I would have never gone the minute I would have seen the shadows. I would stay my ass inside. But Yahela was a brave woman. She was she was, yeah, and so then stopped her from using her hammock. But then after the first two or three times, the shadows became clear apparitions of two women she knew back into in Sacatecas, and so she knew them from Zacaticas, and they must have hated her so much that they travel their spirits in the afterlife, traveled from Zacatecas to Guadlakara to haunt her. Yeah, yeah, and one of them was named Aurelia. Allegedly, Aurelia wanted to be with Mibela's husband Ourah, and so she began to see these two women and they would get closer to her, and when they did, Mibela would faint. She was brave, but not that brave as anyone would. This happened a few times, but on that night her son found her in the middle of the road, and that was the first time that something like that happened. So things had escalated. As she was sleeping, she felt cold hand to grab onto her and she was screaming as she was being dragged outside. And this was a long long way. It was twenty dragged, yeah, yeah, it was at least twenty feet from the patio to outside, and she had to be dragged through a hallway that connected their house to another house. Needless to say, she was shook. And speaking of that shared hallway and the other house, that's another place that was here to be haunted. Wow, and this story is more sad. In that house, people would see the ghost of a woman named Donia Margarita. And apparently our family in guad La Caa could just not get away from the normal. You already heard our mom's story which happened in basically a parking lot that we call Lapenton. Lapentune is still there, but we don't know what it's anymore, like we forgot. Yeah, now I'm not sure if these are still there. But in front of Lapention, when our mom was a kid, there used to be a vestin dad like an apartment building, and this is where some of our cousin's family used to live on their dad's side. Small world. Anyway, in this building, in the very back of this essing that no one was allowed to go back there, there was a man named Don Laudo who was said to be a bruejo, and he told all the kids to never go back there and listen when a alleged bruco tells you not to do something, you listen, I mean yeah, yeah. One day, our theos Valdo didn't listen. So all the kids were playing hide and seek and her mom was excluded. They were kind of bullying her. Back then, she was sad about been excluded, but after what happened, she was happy to have been left out. So all the kids except her mom were playing hide and seek, and artios Waldo had the green idea to go back there, the place the boujose to never go to hide because to him it was the best hiding spot. And so off he went and he ran back there, and after what seemed like forever, he was like, hmm, no one's coming to find me, because no one wants to go over there, right right, But he stayed there hidden, determined to win. So he was crouched down behind some wall or something. It was dark. He was crouching when he heard footsteps and he's like, ah, dang, they found me, And he was like, oh, no, they found me. But then when he heard the footsteps coming closer, he realized it was not one of his friends, because along with the footsteps, he heard what sounded like a cane. Oh, and that's a distinct sound right there. Yeah. He closed his eyes harder now, saying no, no, no, But the footsteps and the king got closer and closer. He held his breath when he felt a cold, cold hand on his shoulder. Then he opened his eyes and turned around and looked up behind him and fainted. So he stayed there, fainted, passed out on the floor on his knees at Walmart and everything, yes, of all way whatever. At the end of the about fifteen minutes passed by, he finally woke up. He ran outside and everyone was looking for him. At that point, he was pale and he could barely talk, and he finally told them that he saw an old lady. An old lady was and that touched him and was like, well, didn't I tell you not to go back there, because there was two old lady ghosts that haunted back there and they never left that area, kind of like they were confined to it. So as long as you didn't go back there, you were fine, right right, Oh my god. And we sat her in the episode of Spanish, but our Mibela used to tell everyone like, oh, you better hurry yup. But you're gonna see the the ghosts. And speaking of Donlaudo, he had a wife. Her name was Donia Tonia, and Donia Donia was she was cheating on Don Laudo with Don Milito. They had a bunja kets together, her and Don Laudo, and then she got pregnant with Miglito's baby or Donludo could have been could have been the one. Tragically when she gave birth to the baby, she passed away. Oh, she left a lot of kids behind, you know, they had them back to back, So the oldest was like twelve and then down there until the newborn. Mm hmm. The next youngest son from the newborn was around two and a bit after Donia Donia passed away. The two year old would says ma, mas ma, ma, it's mom, it's mom, especially when he was in the back feeding the chickens, and the toddler was saying that he saw her but everyone and would also hear what sounded like her footsteps. She wore chinkoluts and had a distinct way of walking, so they just knew it was her when they heard the footsteps, and the footsteps would go from her bedroom down the hall, to the kitchen and then to the back with the chickens. So they kind of like, well, that was her everyday routine, so they knew it was her. It could be no one else, right, And the boy kept saying that his mom fed the chickens with him. And the wildest thing was when the two year old was a little older and he came back home one day with wrappers in his pocket and he told everyone that his mom had given him candy and he was eating the candy. He had the wrappers with him in his hands, evident, and everyone's like, well, who else would have given him? That? Man? And eventually the family all moved from that building, so they say, is still there making that same walk the same routine. Oh, I wonder what's there now? I don't know, because I don't I do not think it's his apartment buildings anymore. Now. I remember our mom saying that it wasn't apartment building anymore. Yeah, man, that's crazy. There's so many similar stories out there too, of like something tragic happening to like a parent's usually the mom and then like the kid will have like like a candy wrapper or something that the mom gave her, so wild and for her last story, we're circling back to Mibella's place. Well around there this one happened to our mom and Arthia Lutez, So around the corner from where Mibela lived, a woman named the Nests sold remedies from when you have cold, but also gorditas, two different things. She was a hustler, she had two kids to raise and she was taking care of her own sick elderly tias, so she had to do what she had to do, including gorditas. So our mom and Arthea went for the gorditas since in was closer to them than this other lady where they liked to Gourdita's from, and they worked up and Nines had a setup where in the entrance to her place she had her command, and then these cement seats where you could sit kind of like a like a stump, like a cement stump, a big cement stop. Yes, yes, yes, and so on this day, for whatever reason, Inites had to leave for a second, maybe to go to the bathroom or something, so she left the goditas on la Coman since it took a while to cook anyway, Initz walked away and from the other side. Our mom and THEA were sitting on the cement seats just chatting when they saw Esta come out from one of the rooms and they were like, oh my god, how are you saying that? We're so glad you're doing better. You know, it's good to see you up and about, because they knew she was she had been sick. And the lady was like, oh, yeah, I'm doing so much better. I've been able to walk around ketch up with everyone. Good for her, right, and she was rayed her brand new slippers or brand new robe, but she seemed happy, so I said, oh my god, I was just going to say that she's just sporting yes, this new Clues slippers. So then she after chatting for a bit, maybe what like fifteen thirty minutes I don't remember less less, oh like ten minutes at most ten, but probably let frite to ten minutes. So after chatting for about five to ten minutes, she told our mom and her thean that she was going to go back to bed for a bit, but that it was so nice to see them, and so she left. Then Nanes came back and so our mom and her THEA are like, oh, hey, it was so nice to see your theap and about. She looked so much better, and Nanessa was like, excuse me, what do you mean. She was shocked and she's like, it's not possible for her to have been up in about. She is bedridden. And our mom was like, no, no, we definitely saw her and we definitely chatted with her. And Nanaa was like, I'll show you, I'll show you that she's bedridden. The doctor said these are her last days and so can you imagine that? No, I would faint right then and there. So Enes took our mom and Rthia to her Thea's room, and sure enough she was laying there wild, sleeping, you know, unaware, and it's like, yeah, on her side, facing up, eyes closed, yeah, straight up, like sleeping like she hadn't gotten up in a while. Yeah. And so then Es showed them her pink slippers on the rope because she's like, oh, I bought them for her, but she hasn't even got a chance to wear them. They were still in the box and everything that when they saw her wearing yeah, wild and they're like, no, we saw her. They were shocked. Yes, told them that other people had told her they saw her. THEA walking around, especially near the school, but that their story was the one that was the most impactful, and our mom and Anthia grabbed Gurditas and booked it. And when they got around the corner, they sat on some random cement bench, another cement bench, A different one, yeah, a different one, far away, far away from ess. They were just shocked. They couldn't even talk. And a few days later they heard that in Nesta passed away and they never did go back there. To me, that were not worth it. They're like, nope, maybe should want to talk to her again. Yeah, they saw her once, they're not trying to see her again. Once was enough. Yeah, and yeah, those were some of our mom's ghost stories from g wow. Wow wow. Well we'll take an ad break here and then we'll come back with the true crime case. And we're back, and this case I wanted to find something like and you know what I did, because sometimes I say that and then it's like the most depressing story ever, and I'm like, wow, what the fuck? But no, this is the Mexico City Museum heist. Oh yes. So in the morning of December twenty fifth, nineteen eighty five, Mexiko woke to the news that the robbery of the century had just taken place in their very own in the National Museum of Anthropology. And that's today's topic. Wow, we've never done a heist, no no, And sadly there's not a ton of information on it, so it's kind of on the shorter end, but still still so. First, just a little bit about the National Museum of Anthropology. It is the largest and most visitor museum in Mexico, and like we said, it's in Mexico City, between Basel de la re Forma and Mahatma Gandhi Street in Chapultepec Park. The museum opened in nineteen sixty four and since then has become a national treasure. The museum has twenty three rooms for exhibits and it covers an area of eight hundred and fifty seven hundred and ninety square meters. There's also a courtyard with a big pond. The halls are ringed by gardens. It's beautiful and among these twenty three exhibits you can find the Stone of the Sun, La Piedra Delson And I'm sure we've all seen this. I'll put a picture of it, but like, once you see it, you know what it is. It's a Mechica sculpture that dates back to fifteen oh two, although the exact date of its creation is not known. You'll also find the giant stoneheads of the omes. I know we've all seen these. Yeah, these were the ones in the museum, were found in the jungles of Tabasco and Vera Cruz. There's so many sacred pre Columbian artifacts found in the permanent exhibitions too, because there's also rotating exhibitions. But like in these permanent ones, you can find the disc of mik Atlante Kutli schools, masks and replicas of codexes. There's also a replica of the feather headdress of mok Tsuma the second, which famously is in a British museum and they can't transport it because something will happen to it. But everyone's like, return that shit to Mexico and you qube replica. Yeah, exactly, make a swap here. Yeah, but you'll find that there. In short, the museum is a very special plays and the robbery shocked so many people. So what happened? Two friends and veterinary students at UNAM planned the heist. They were Carlos Perchez Trevigno and Ramon Sardina Garcia interesting, both from middle class families, both with no criminal records. Apparently they shared a fascination and admiration for archaeology and pre Hispanic art, and maybe that's what brought them together. But the pair of friends spent six months observing the routines of the security guards at the museum, and then they made their plan. They visited at least fifty times, and in these fifty visits, they took pictures, they made sketches, they learned the value of certain pieces, and for their heist, they had initially chosen New Year's Day, but they changed that day because they learned that the museum was planning to repair its air conditioning system on Christmas Eve and they were like, yep, we're doing it on Christmas Eve. And so another factor to that date is that they thought surveillance would be at its lowest and they were right because all the security guards were in the same part of the museum drinking and celebrating. Oh my god, I mean that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, So while the security guards partied and drink on Christmas Eve, Carlos and Ramon spent the holiday with their families. Then at some point they left, they changed into a black clothes classic heist outfit, and they met up. They jumped the fence into passe and around one am they entered the museum through the air conditioning ducks. And because they went through the air conditioning ducks, the alarm system did not go off. And again the security guards were busy partying instead of patrolling every two hours, and so these two they were able to take their time and until four am in the morning, they went from exhibit to exhibit taking things the three hours they were there. In total, they stole one hundred and twenty four items, including the sacred senote of chichen Itza, more than sixty million pieces from the Temple of Balenke, gold jewelry, the mask of gamasots aka the sapothec bat god, which dates back to one hundred BC and two hundred A d oh wow. Yeah, this mask of gamasots was found in the ruins of Monte Alban which was one of the earliest cities of meso America and in present day Wahaka. Precious precious artifacts. Yeah, they carried these artifacts. They stolen items from their highest into Carlos's volks Wagon sedan and then they drove to Carlos's parents' house in the Cardinez, the San Matteo suburb of Mexico City, and there they hid everything inside of a suitcase in his closet and the robbery went undiscovered until the changing of the guards at eight a m. On the twenty fifth, and then the news broke out. Room was shook and an intense investigation followed, which even involved Interpol because they thought there was this had to do with like a ring of museum robberies around the world. But no, it was just two young students. Yes. During the investigation, this intense investigation, they found cookie and alcohol residue on plate and glasses that belonged to the security guards. That's all they found. Yes, yes, because other than that, the investigation was not going well. Like all they could do is it's like, yeah, these security guards were eating cookies and drinking instead of patrolling. I mean that is an important fact. Yes, Yeah, prosecutors detained and interrogated nine police guards as well, but again it led to nothing. The Association of Friends of the National Museum of Anthropology raised fifty million pessels to give out as a reward to anyone that could provide information that would lead to the recovery of the pieces, but this reward was never handed out because no one could provide anything, and then the trail went cold until nineteen eighty nine. Wow, a whole four years later. In nineteen eighty nine, Catdos's mom was cleaning his closet when she found a suitcase, opened it and saw the stolen artifacts. She grabbed a suitcase and went straight to the museum. Which if that event, if that, if that version of events was real, it would be kind of fun. But oh, so that's not what happened. No, No, that's it reported a lot, but that's not what happened. That'd be crazy, though. I mean, this whole time I've been wondering. I figured you would get into it, so I didn't like interrupt it, ask and I'm like, what is their motivations? We'll get into it, because I thought that if their motivation was to give everything back to the original people's then that'd be cool. But then I'm like, well, they'd have to know about on topology and the original peoples and where to return those items to and blah blah, all of that, right, And then if this version of events was true and they just kept everything in the suitcase the whole time, that's kind of like, what's what's the point just to keep the things in the suitcase? Right? Yeah, I don't know. Well I do know, we'll get into it. You'll let me know in the notes. I don't know, and I'm not telling you, But no, that's not what happened. She didn't find the suitcase and carry it back to the museum, because like in that version of events, whenever you see that reported then in the same article or whatever, you'll see people being like, well, what was the motive of the artifacts? If they were all sort of way and she found them years later in the closet and that's how they were caught. But to me, the actual events of how they found them, it's pretty clear that the motive was money. Oh I seem, of course. Mean, before I get to that version of events, let me just add the quote from the curator of the museum from back then, Felipe Solis, who said, quote, the value of just one of these pieces on the black market exceeded twenty million at the time. Still, the greatest damage was cultural rather than monetary. What they've stolen from us is a piece of our history, something priceless and of an inestimable anthropological and historical value. And he would go on to say that this taking these things to try and sell them doesn't make sense because they're worth so much, no one would buy them, and they're so well known, so recognizable that you can't like discreetly sell them on the black market. Immediately would be recognized. That makes sense. So to him, in the motive, couldn't be money. Oh so he's like, it can't be money. Yeah. Yeah, him and other like notable historians or the cultural commentators of the time were an agreement that it couldn't be money because of the same reasons. But they just didn't think about those things, right right. I think it was just a plan of two dumb, dumb fucks who were like, let's take these things. So, yeah, let me tell you what happened. Okay. So January nineteen eighty nine, police arrested drug traffickers sal Aka el Gabo in Guada la Cara. Look that our topics are connected. In an attempt to get a shorter sentence, el Gabo confessed that he knew where the stolen museum pieces were and he told the police about Carlos purchess Oh, and he said that he met Carlos and Acapulco, because it turns out that after the robbery, Carlos, it might have been both of them, but Carlos Rusher moved there to try and hide and they both again it's unclear, you'll see. Anyway, they began to establish links with the cartel community, such as himself, El Gabo and Jose Serrano, another drug trafficker, and these two offered to help Garlos sell the pieces in the black market. And so after this confession, the Deputy Prosecutor of the War on Drugs, Javier ce placed a wire trap, a wire tap on Salo Utires on his phone calls from jail, and through that wiretap, they were able to hear Elga and Gadlos negotiate the sale of these museum artifacts. And so this is when they officially started to investigate Gardlos. And seven months after that was initiated, police descended into Hernas Herdinas the Sanmato and during this operation into his house, his parents' house, and during this operation they recovered one hundred and eleven of the one hundred and twenty four stolen artifacts. Oh my god. And I also imagine the parents didn't even know and they're like, what are theys doing here? What are Sunday? What? What? What? Fuck? The artifacts were wrapped into toilet paper inside of a Duffel bag, inside of the closet of his former closet, you know what. Like, Also, the museum has a certain way of storing these things to preserve them, and all that, and all of that is obviously out the window when they were stolen and kept and wrapped in tilet paper and it too the bag, Yeah, exactly. And seven of those so one hundred eleven of the one hundred twenty four were covered in that suitcase, so there was still some missing of that missing number. Seven of those were made with Ramon, who to this day has never been found, and neither have those seven pieces. So Ramon has been am I this whole time. Yeah, he was never found to this day, he's like his whereabouts are unknown. But the pair, after the robbery, the pair exchanged two other pieces for cocaine, which were recovered. Those two pieces. It just tells me this was all for money. Class fools really couldn't afford cocaine. That's kind of crazy to me, right right, Well, they were for middle class families, but these two were students. I guess, like I doubt their parents had extra income to give them to spend on cocaine or that, or these funds were running out because they're not high income their middle income families. So yeah, they exchanged two for cocaine. And then there was another additional four pieces that were never recovered. Wow, aside from the seven that stayed with Ramon. Luckily, the most important pieces were recovered, like the sapothech back god or the obsidian jar that is shaved like a monkey. God knows was arrested, of course, and was sentenced to twenty two years in prison, and he took credit as the mastermind of the heist and to fuel the myth that a motive was never discovered. The deputy prosecutor told the media at the time that he didn't know why the young men committed while the young men committed this crime because he didn't believe they could sell the solen pieces, but clearly they were trying to because they traded to for cocaine just because everyone else didn't believe they could sell them. Doesn't mean they didn't didn't believe sell them and yeah that that was not the reason exactly it told them in the first place. Yeah. And while Ramon was never found, Louis Perchez Carus's brother was also arrested for helping him hide the pieces. Oh wow. And this robbery forced the museum to implement way more strict security measures and install electronic alarms as well as a closed circuit camera system, and increase the number of guards. It also changed the penal code of the country, where now crimes against cultural heritage were punished more severely. Oh wow, I never heard of that, right right? Like interesting? Yeah, and there is it does an eighteen movie called Moussail Story. I just gonna say, is there a movie about this? Yes? Yes there is? Uh? It stars Guy Yes, yeah, I love him, And I will add that seeing him and Diego Luna staring anything together is like, wait, is Diego also in it? No, I'm just saying you're seeing these two together in general is like it's like you know, yeah, yeah, it's like the most Mexican art ever, Like these two Mexican? No am I confusing them? Are they both need to Mataen or is that pedrol? No, No, okay, that's so too Okay, I'm cutting that. No one will know that. I don't know that. I haven't seen that movie. Really, I've seen parts of it. I've never seen it all. Okay, I've seen parts of it. I know you've seen parts of it. No, I have seen parts of it yet. Yeah. Anyway, the movie Museau does take liberties, a lot of liberties from what I've heard. I haven't seen it. It is on my watch list. It got pretty good ratings, seven point five out of ten. Like that's decent. Let me add that Carlos was mergered shortly after his release after his twenty two years sentence. And again Ramond was never found damn. But yeah, that was the museum heist of Mexico City. That was that was interesting. We never we never done heist. Yeah, yeah, I know there's a very famous jewelry heist of Brazil, but I haven't like tried to even cover it because there's so many people involved in Like this was only two people and again I can't find like more information on them. But when it comes to like more involved like heist like this, there's like a lot of people a lot of names. It's just just it seems daunte to research. But I know there's like another like Julie Heist in Brazil at least, so maybe something to add to the topic list to change things up a bit. But yeah, yeah, before we go, do you have any spooky recommendations more like a true crime recommendation? I listened to I finally after months of being of having a hold on Libby, I finally was able to listen to Virginia Roberts stuffrey memoir Nobody's Girl. And so, I mean, for anyone that doesn't know, she was one of the most outspoken survivors of Jeffrey Epstein, and so that's what her memoir is about. Also about how the abuse she experienced as a child, including sexual abuse in your child at home by her father and then her father's friend, how that all of that set her up basically to become a vicdom of trafficking later on as a teenager. And yeah, I mean it's just terrible, and I at towards the end she kind of talked about like, none of this will change until we change basically patriarchy, right, because the patriarchy is what allows women and children to be objectified and abused and all of that, and it was just it was it was hard to listen. Obviously it's a hard topic, but also as she's writing it, and well, in some parts of the books she's so she talks about in some parts how she there are certain men that abuse her that she wasn't ready to name because they have been like threatening before and they have threatened others and all that. So of course she was concerned for her safety and the safety of her children too, and so she talked about maybe once her children were older or once she felt safer, that she would share the names of those men in the future. And so that was really hard to hear talk about the future knowing what happened. Yes, she died by suicide or so, there's like speculation because she did put out months before she died, she put out a tweet saying and she talks about that in her book because she was she did have thoughts of suicide and she acted on those thoughts during various points in her life. She was like and then she struggled with substance utes as well. And of course anyone who had such a traumatic life and experiences can deal with those things right in those ways, and so she did struggle with those things. But she tweeted months before she did and she said that she was not suicidal, that she was not thinking of any of her life and if she died, like it wasn't by her own hand, but you know, things could change. It's other speculation out there. Of course, it's all alleged. Nothing is proven. But some people don't believe that she ended her own life, right, and who knows. I mean, powerful people were wanting to see her dead, But I don't want to speculate, you know. Yeah, but yeah, it was just sad to hear talk about that, to hear talk about the future, like maybe in the future I'll be able to name those people, and yeah, she wasn't able to do that. Yeah, that is sad. One thing right before she died, she had accused her husband of domestic violence and he they were like in a child in a custody battle of the children, and he had not a ladder to see her children. So it's also like kind of hard to listen and like, obviously you can tell by her writing she loved her children so much and she wasn't allowed to see them before she died, but also she praises her husband throughout the book, which is fine. She doesn't have to open up about the domestic violence, but it's kind of hard, like to know what was her experience before she died and then hear her glaze in so much in the book. Also, I can't ignore that she was a Trump supporter, but it doesn't take away from her experiences and the battle she was fighting against Epstein and Gallaine Maxwell, right, and it really really her life and experiences I think shows us that there is no perfect victim. That's not a bad thing. Yeah, and that's not something we should be expecting ever. Yeah, And I mean it's harrowing, but I must. I feel like a must Rader must listen for sure. I do not have a spooky recommendation. I've been despairing. I haven't been watching anything like horror movies that bring me joy. I've been watching depressing documentaries, but important documentaries like I've finished The Panama Deception. Uh and Yeah. Other than that, I have also been reading a book about Venezuela, and then I read a different book called Drinktura, which is like a Actually I record a video that I haven't even edited, but about it's like a quintessential Chicano studies book for a reason. It was a very it was a very fun short read, so entertaining important. Nonetheless, it was written in nineteen ninety two and it's like a mix of memoir own history. But yeah, I nothing spooky. I need to get back to it so I will have an actual spooky recommendation. There's things that I'm like are on my watch list. I just haven't gotten around to watching. So that I watched. This is long in theaters right now. I wanted to go see No Other Toys. I don't know if it's still there, but this was like a thriller. There's a horror comedy coming out. I forgot when that I want to see. There's one I want to see that Uh has the guy from Stranger Things and it has to do with zombies and it's a horror comedy. Oh, I haven't even heard of that one. Let's see No Other Choice is a movie directed by Park Chan Wook. And what's the genre? Okay, oh, comedy thriller like a dark comedy. Oh, I see thriller akin too? Like Parasite? Did you ever see Parasite? No? Oh? My god, it's so good. So yeah, I wanted to see that. But yeah, I mean there's so many movies coming out. Let's the other one called It has to do with like cold storage. Maybe that what it's called, Yes, cold storage, cold storage. Cold Storage comes out February thirteen, cold and yeah cold cold storage. So you're saying cold, Oh no cold. It has Joe Keery that's his name from Stranger Things. Oh, Liam Neeson. Isn't it gross? Yeah? Uh, but I believe it's written by the same people who wrote or who did Zombie Land. Oh, it's related to Zombie Lane in some way I don't remember. I think it's either directed by the same people, rated by the same people, one of those two. So that's another one I want to see. But yeah, I just haven't been watching anything anything spooky, so so yeah that brings I gotta sound touch in my hair. It's just it's so curly and I just want to keep Yeah, it looks good. Yeah, anyway, I had to stop touching it, Okay, So yeah, that brings us to the end of the episode. I don't think I was going to add anything alse for that. Oh our current book club we have I feel like we haven't mentioned the book club. It's still seeing we're reading when we read the position is reading. Yeah, we finished reading The Possession of Alberta by Isabel So make sure you're reading it so that you can contribute to our book club discussion questions when we send them out sometime in February. Yeah. Well, I was planning a work on the notes in a couple to haven't done a couple of weeks, so yeah, maybe in a couple of weeks i'll send out the or actually before that, I'll send out the discussion questions. So yeah. Other than that, stay strong, stay united, and stay a spooky. Why are you talking like like Chris? Like a couple of days around in all weeks, Christina keeps talking like Chris Tregger from I don't know actually's doing it again. I've been rewatching it. It's been I can't stop. I know I need to stop. Anyway, Stay a spooky. We'll catch every one next time. Bye, come bye. As Booktells is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen, and with the help of Don Shout Out Don. If you aren't joining the podcast considerably going to say five star review, we would really appreciate it. If you don't want to the professor review, just don't leave a review, but don't leave anything lower than that, please, I'm just kidding. You can reach out to the podcast at at spoaktos at gmail dot com. You can go to our website at bookitos dot com and fill out the contact form. If you want to support the podcast, you can join our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. Eight dollar members get an exclusive keychain. It's super cool. I got new ones and these ones are huge. And if you want to support but you can or don't want to join the patreon, that's fine too. You can also get some merch. You can find sure s essay, spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie. I love the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a no Mad Miss shirt which is a fan favorite. There's a lot of options, crap tops, sweaters. It's almost swetter weather. We're nearing a spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies. You're gonna need them. If you don't want to do all that, that's fine too. You can just listen like you're listening now, and that's the best support that you can give us. Like I always say in our ad break and yeah, I feel like history. You can follow Estodia's Unknown Mining, Carment's other podcasts, and you can find as Spooky Taels on all of our socials at a Spooky Tells All. This is in the show notes and we appreciate every single listen. Thank you so much. Stay as Spooky