The Dark Side of Cesar Chavez

Hello, Hello, This is Christina and Carmen and this is another episode of his Spooky Tales, a podcast for all things spooky, true crime, myths, legends in Latin America, or just you know Latino things in the US. This month, we said we were going to only do femicide cases. However, something very pressing has come up. Yeah, today, March eighteenth, twenty twenty sixth, at the time of recording, very dark allegations of sexual abuse have been made against Sasa Chavis. And we say allegations because like none of this is like legally confirmed in the eyes of the law, right, but there's like sixty people who corroborated this, like the New York Timessy. Yeah, they they went in deep in this report of THEIRS reporting of theirs. These allegations involved and Dolts Wertha herself. Before we get into that though, over at our history podcast East Dordias Unknown, which is always linked in the show notes. Last year we did a five part episode series on Tessa Chavs and we went in pretty deep in those episodes. Yeah, and I'm going to share a very condensed version of what we went through in those episodes right now before talking about the new allegations just for context, because I feel like this might be like a surprise for a lot of people, but there's a long pattern of like disturbing and violent behavior from him from Tasa Chavis, and so that's why we're sharing this condensed version of those episodes here. Because also I've seen some pretty disturbing comments, like one always blaming the women, right, especially dolo is Wertha right now. Yeah, I was very discuss said by some of the comments I've seen basically say well, what did she know? And it's like she was abused. You know how much bravery it takes because the message is like these comments like that for survivors of sexual abuse to come forward, for women to come forward, and it takes years, like for example, like people that are abuse as children, it takes them I don't remember the number, but it's like thirty twenty to thirty years to disclose what happened. And even as an adult, it takes so much time first to come to terms with yourself as to what happened, Like it takes people years because we're conditioned as a society in rape culture, right, so we're already conditioned for I guess I just abuse of children and women is normalized. So it takes already so much time for some survivors of sexual abuse to realize they were even sexual abused, so much time to overcome, work through the shame, to disclose your stories. And it is a survivor's choice when they disclose, and just because they keep something to themselves, because that's a huge, huge thing, you know what I mean, it's no small thing, and it takes I forgot I was saying, God her thought because it's not mad, but uh, it's their right to disclose when they're ready to disclose. And sometimes all it takes is one person to disclose and the rest of the survivors come forward with their stories, which is what happened here. It's what happened here, and it so happens all the time, and so it's embarrassing, honestly, if you're saying, oh, there is what that was his accomplice, No, she was abused by him. Someone left to comment saying, what if she's like Gloria Trevi And I'm like, first, like, it is way too early, Like what is why is that your first thought to blame a woman when the man who abused her and others is the person who's it wrong here? Right? Other disturbing comments I saw is people saying that this was a part of a conspiracy to distract from the Epstein Files. Yeah, and it's like, stop making everything about the Epstein Files. I'm sorry, but like, but also, this is the same situation of uncontrolled, unfettered patriarchy, unfettered toxic masculinity, masculinity un I don't know, like unhinged men who who are in control and thrive off that control and abuse of others. Yeah, they're like one side of the same coin. Yeah, exactly. And so like the I think, why why I wanted to share all the context before is because it's going to establish a long pattern. This isn't just a distraction. This isn't why are they coming out now with this? What is behind this? Like yeah, please stop and like think and yeah, so we're not getting into like the UfW strikes or the betrayal of Larry Itlong and the Filipino farm workers. That's the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Sasa Chavis. We did go way deeper in that five part episode series on Estonia's Unknown, but I feel like now at this point in time, this has been well known that the Filipino farm workers were betrayed. Yeah, and especially Larry iong So. Dolores Werta was one of Sasa Chavas's earliest and most loyal supporters, probably second only to his wife, Helen Chaves. Dolors Werta and Sesa Chaves knew each other from CSOU, another organization in California. They both worked there. It was like a community organizing organ type of place. Again, we talked to way more about it in Estonia's a known and in many ways she was like him, dedicated to the cause, much to the detriment of her own personal relationships, children included. The cause came first, and this culture of the cause coming first at all costs was part of the culture that was created in the UfW to have it run like a cult under a Sasa Chavis like. I'm sure that's not the case today, but that is the atmosphere that he created exactly exactly, And so she was a dedicated worker, like beyond dedicated. She spoke up when she had thoughts, when she needed to have her voice, she spoke up, which, like a lot of men were not used to, including Sa sad Chavis and like a lot of times he would address his issues with her in private, but he occasionally like burst out her in anger in public in front of everyone. During one meeting, he yelled at her, I don't give a damn what you think or anyone thinks. I'm going to run it the way I want to run it. And if you don't like it, too bad, get out. I don't want to argue with you. If you don't want to take orders from me, then get out. I've had it. And those who were the closest to him were super used to outbursts from him like that. This is a super regular thing he did, and says chav is also like to be in control, even in like situations where like you kind of have to let control go. He didn't like he controlled everything, and that included like everything in the UfW everything, and the UfW is a United for Workers. I don't know if we said already, but in case anyone doesn't know. One of the ways he maintained control in the UfW was to go through a purging of union members and keeping a very very tight inner circle, which the inner circle happened to be almost only anglow at one point during the year of the union, he had like one Mexican American labor in his inner circle, and eventually that person was purged as well. And purging the purgings or like the kicking out of members. It was always public and humiliating for those that he fired. It was like a humiliation. Ritual to maintain power and control, as is common in colts. Exactly, at some point when the famous grape strikes that we all know, when those began, he announced that he was going to he was going to establish lap Pass, which was a compound. It would serve as a spiritual retreat and isolated place for him and the farm workers. And Lapass played a big part in the new allegations that we will talk about, because yeah, there was a reason he wanted to be isolated, right yeah. And I think any moment, any moment you get a compound in any that's. Just a red flag all around. Yeah. Yeah, because he had this office called forty acres, but forty acres wasn't enough, and that's when they announced LAPAs and he died before the fall the other thing could happen. But after LAPAs, he also wanted this other like even more isolated, yeah, called Los Menos. Do you remember that loose menos Yah? Yeah, yeah, But LAPAs did happen, and over time, more and more farm worker families moved to LAPAs and Lapaz was yeah, out of the way, it was in the mountains. In the fall of nineteen seventy four, so such Iris was touring Europe to gain support for the boycott of different products that was happening, so like lettuce was one of them that was happening during this time period. And so in this Europe tour, he even got to meet the Pope and he talked with the Pope about the plight of the farm workers, and it was like a Catholic boy's dream come true, this meeting the pope. Of course, because we're not going to go into a hero. But one of the things that he did a lot was like use like religious imagery and like Catholic sacrifice to strengthen the cause. I guess you. Could say, yeah, yeah, which again we went into all that like it is included fasting whenever they did like those like super super long marches, like not wearing. It also reminds me of like a high control group and cult behavior because yes, fascine is like a thing in religion which some would. Say it's also a high control group. But cults are very well known for also for I don't know, weird eating habits is not the right thing, but they basically they they deprived their members of sleep and food in order to control them easier. And so this is like a similar thing. Yeah, And but he was doing it to make it under the guise of Catholicism, yes, and to make himself look like a martyr, which would give him like myth making in real life. Like yeah, yeah, it's all part of the same thing. It's a part of controlling his image and how he wants people to see him. Yes, yes, exactly, and so yeah, he got to meet the Pope. While he was doing this, his cousin Manuel Chavez was back home doing what some might call like very not Christian like behavior, but some might actually see it as very Christian type behavior, depending on what religion you are, I guess anyway, So Sisa Chilvis over the years when this happened nineteen seventy four, had already shared his sentiment on undocumented workers, but it only got worse after the failure of the letter strikes. He would say things like, quote, if we can get the illegals out of California, we will win the strike overnight end quote, which the strike wasn't going well, he would immediately blame undocumented workers. Yeah, and it wasn't their fault, like part of it. Like, I think what was missing here was thinking like who is explaining the who is the one wanting. To pay them less? Who's offering this? Yeah? I mean this is just a punching down type of attitude, like instead of being at the people in power, you're mad at the people being taken advantage of and in a more vulnerable position than yourself. Right, right. And I've actually been seeing so now that all of this has surfaced about Caesar and Travis, people are talking about all his other issues, one of those issues. Being what you're talking about right now. His xenophobic and anti undocumented immigrant or farm worker beliefs. And I'm still seeing people defending him or like minimizing it. Oh no, No, his issue wasn't that they were legals first of all. Yeah, it was because it wasn't as fuck, it was that they were crossing the picket line. And it's like, okay, he was met at the wrong people though, and it doesn't mean he was right. And people are still defending this, trying to justify it. Oh, they were messing with the strikes, and I'm like, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. He was xenophobic. He was anti immigrant, anti undocumented people, and that's wrong. Yeah, and of sentence like no further justification, Like stop trying to like whitewash this. Man, you know what I mean? Yes, or image launder I don't know, Like are when we passed that at this point, you would think because me discussing things are coming out and you're still like, Pender's not the right worry. You're still like trying to like twist this positive thing on him, right, And these these anti immigrant sentiments have been going around for years at this point, Oh, this is old, this is old news. As they say, he would blame the undocumented workers when where any strike wasn't going well. He would call them slurs like wet backs and illegals. He often said that CIA was involved in a conspiracy to bring in illegals to undermine his union. This was not backed up by any evidence, like we know that the FBI, and this is still a dumb ass right wing belief that the government, the Democrats, are bringing in undocumented people to bring their numbers up, even though undocumented people can't vote. Democrats don't actually like undocumented people either. Well they're not. They're not pro immigration. In reality, they're pro capitalism, right, Yeah, everyone is pro capitalism at the end of the day. But also one of the biggest like reasons that the Filipino farm workers and Larry Leong went or had clashes was such ivist before he straight up like just betrayed them, was because they had very communist views, which you, honestly you need when you're doing labor. Yeah, organizing, like please, this is bare minimum, Like communist is not a fucking dirty word. Like stop stop, Like no, I'm not gonna get into that run right now. But that was one of the issues between them. But how are you going to be a pro union, pro workers' rights and then have this. Issue with communism as well? Like what do you? But that's that that's the thing, says Chavis was upheld as this leader by the Democratic Party because he wasn't he was very anti communists. He was he was pro himself, yeah, and pro the power that being in this position got him. Yes, yes, exactly, and that was one of the strikes between the Filipino form workers and him. He didn't and when he would do the purges of the union, it would be like one of the main reasons he would us is like, oh, you're you're talking with communist newspapers, you're talking to communists organizations, And sometimes it wasn't even true. And that's the excuse he would use, was his excuse. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, he thought that CIA was doing this and the FBI were surveilling him, and they weren't because he was very even though like in the beginning he was organized and he was a threat to them, later on as the years went by, they were like, no, we this is someone we need. Like they didn't. They don't have a file, a long ass file like they did on MLK or Yah Malcolm X. Like there was no surveillance like he thought was happening, which made him paranoid. But that was part of the power getting to him, the paranoia and the purging of members. Yeah, and that's why people have a lot of people have viewed him as a sellout for a long time because of that. Yes, sorry, I got a little off track there. But with Cessa chaviss in Europe, that's where we left us, and Manoil Chavis is back in California. And so with Cessa Chavis's approval and with UfW union money, Manuil Chavis set up his cousin, Manoid Chavis set up what he called wetlines. These were patrols along the Arizona border done by UfW members paying UfW members were patrolling. They were like a private border patrol exactly. Their first their job was to stop those trying to cross in search of work because they thought they were gonna scab. And again, they don't know the they couldn't possibly ever know the reason why someone is crossing into Mexico or into the US from Mexico. But they believed that everyone crossing was gonna scab the current lemon strike that was going on, and they frequently used violins to stop people. There were incidents reported by the Yuma Daily Sun. Here's one headline. A seventeen year old was beaten by the UfW patrol. Five cars were torched, a lemon picker was attacked with a blackjack. One twenty three year old Mexican was beaten with a hose and robbed by three men. Two men were beaten and their border crossing cards were stolen. They were allowed to cross with these border crossing cards. Another man was found hiding in a bush naked. He had been taken from the levengrove, beaten and dumped by the border. This is a UfW doing all this. Yeah. Two men were beaten, one of them had burns on the sole of his feet and they had been thrown in the river. The reports by Mexican newspapers were much worse. There were daily fire bombs placed under cars, Houses were set on fire again, all allegedly being done by the UfW wetline patrols. A month into these patrols there were thirty seven confirmed beatings. Latribuna released pictures of victims who were beaten by Sessa chavistas is what they were calling them. It was uncovered that the UfW had bribed officials in San Luis to let them do this, to not get them in trouble for doing all the things they were doing at the border and sometimes into Mexico. The Confederation of Mexican Workers, who used to work with Manuel Chavis the UfW and supported their efforts. They broke all ties to the uf W over this. They called the wet lines a campaign of terror and even cited that some Mexicans had been drowned or castrated wow during WE patrolling. When he was told about these incidents, Sasa Chavis said it wasn't true and that people were just saying this to undermine the union. His closest supporters believed him, of course, despite an investigation in Mexico that proved that police had been bribed by the uf W. It was so bad that Bert Corona, another Chicano activists, stage of protests at the Arizona Bord against the UfW wetlines. There's a recorded conversation between Cesa and Manuel where he's telling Manuel that they can bribe police to cut the costs of the wetlines and bring down the number of uf W members on patrol, proving that they were doing this. The Mexican government even issued a warrant for Manuel Chavis's arrest, and after El Malcriado, the UfW newspaper put out a piece talking shit about the Mexican president, they actually had Manuel Javis arrested for three days. He was in a Mexican jail over all this, But through all this, Sasa Javis continued to protect his cousin. When asked about all the money that was being spent on the wet lines or the checks that bounced, he told the rest of the board members that computers has screwed up the account, lying and like making up reasons. Yeah, he blamed someone else for like this all the costs, which again we're going to the wetlines. But he was like it was her fault and fired her. In another humiliating. Firing, he berated people trying to cut ten and twenty dollars here and there. Meanwhile, Minor Chavis got a bulank check for the wetlines. Damn. At one point the wetline operations were costing eighty thousand dollars a week. That is a lot yep. The board kept silent on all of this, and says Sad Chavis completely supported all of his cousins' work. He even launched what was called or he called the Illegals campaign. He said Sisad Chaves. He said Nixon on board patrol weren't doing enough to keep illegals out, so he would and so now the UfW was identifying illegal immigrants and forcing the government to deport them. Wow. Lise Eliza Hirsch Hirsh Eliza Hirsch, who was nineteen at the time but had grown up in the Union. Her parents had moved to Delano when she was twelve to support the Union, but they had moved during the first round of purchase that he had done. But she stayed like they were. Her parents were perched. Yeah, her parents were purged. They left uh Delano and she stayed living with the Chavis family. She was nineteen. This just feels wrong knowing we know exactly she was pretty in charge of this illegals campaign and she didn't like the idea, but she did was but she did what she was told because she was a believer of Sessa Chavis and this was all she knew. She had been raised in the Union. Like. She crafted a form and distributed it. This form was called the Rapport on Illegal Farm Labor Activity. It had a spot for where a person's name would go, where the closest Border Patrol office would go, the worker's home address, the grower's name, so like the firm owner their name, the names of those who had given this illegal and I'm using illegal in quotation marks this illegal worker food, transportation and housing. This is like the most right wing thing you could ever Yes, and how they had crossed yeah, wow, and what they earned. The National Lawyer's Guild, who had previously supplied entrants to the union, refused to participate in this illegal campaign. It's like people had problems with this from the beginning as it was happening. Mm hmm. This cost as such, I was to break all ties with them and fire all the current interns. And he also like believed that people needed to work for free, like they couldn't be for the cause if and expect a paycheck. This is a quote from the book that it was my source for all of this, which is called The Crusades of Sasa Chavis by Miriam Powell. So Whereta supported the campaign, but suggested they changed the terminology because some people found the words went back and illegal offensive. She said, the people themselves aren't illegal, their action of being in this country may be illegal. When she said this, Chavis turned on where that angrily. No, a spade's a spade, he said, you guys get these hang ups. Goddamn it, how do we build a union? They're wets, you know, they're wets and let's go after them and quote and just like one more thing that really emphasizes how culty all this was at some point since such I always hurt his back and he believed that it was Oh, he was also very into like alternative therapies, which we talked about in those five episodes. We went in deep on how he got, like supporters of the union to buy him very expensive like spas. Oh yeah, that they had a place into Lapasse because he needed it. Things like that LAPAs itself was paid for by a supporter of the union who thought they were supporting like the union and the fight for workers right, and it was like a Hollywood someone I don't remember their name, it's in those episodes, but that's who paid for who bought lapass. So yeah, one more thing to emphasize the culty elements in the w At some point, has such I always hurt his back and he believed it was related to his diet. He blamed Mexican food for being so unhealthy and became strictly vegetarian. And also he could have nothing processed. So Helen and the kids ate traditional Mexican food and he didn't, and so she had to make him like a separate meal every time, and he was very like, very vocal about his diet and how it helped his back, and so his most loyal followers adopted the same diet, which included a carried juice regime. Yeah, that's that's cold team regimen. I think it was to say, not regime, probably carry juice regimen. Yeah. He would say things like I wouldn't eat my dog, and cows are just like them. And this made him or this cemented his good person image that the followers had of him, and others were like, just stop, like what are you doing? Stop like Larry, Larry couldn't stand this, like this kind of shit that he did to make himself look holier than that. But this is what abusers do, right, They cultivate these images as community leaders, as people fighting for others rights, so that when allegations and disclosures come out, people would be like, oh, they would never do that, you know, like they purposely cultivate these images. Exactly. During a meeting with some teamsters, one union leader told them to just act like a union leader and not a saint, saying, quote, get upop your fucking knees. Let's not make it a cause, let's make it a fucking union. We'll buy unie pads if you want to fight a holy war and quote. They were tired of his shit, and poor Larry, Larry was so tired of his shit, saysar Chavis started another purge of members that became known as the Monday Night Massacre because that's how many people were kicked out. This was April fourth, nineteen seventy seven. After kicking these members out in this specific purge, this was all at LAPAs, and these people were living at LAPAs. He kicked them out of LAPAs where they lived. He refused to let them use the phone, and they had no way to contact anyone for help after they were kicked out like this was on purpose. Yeah, it was after this specific purging that the union entered a new chapter, saysar. Chavis told the board the union needed drastic change and that they needed to be a movement or a union, but not both. And in February nineteen seventy seven, he called the board meeting at one of Synanon's compounds. And for those that don't know, Synanon is a cult and it was also the predecessor. It started at one of the first were they called teen trouble teens. Trouble teen. It basically pioneered the trouble teen industry. And one of the most vile schools ever Elon. E. L a n. Not Elon Musk, but Elon the Elon School. Yeah, it's unclear to me exactly how Sasad Tavis and Charles Dietrich, the leader of Synernon, became friends. But the cult, it was a cult before it was before the cult became known as a cult, like before it was public. They started out like as a medical organization, supposedly like a healthcare organization, and Synnon had clinics throughout California, and one of the clinics was very close to all the UfW workers and members and they would go to the Synnon clinic for help. And so maybe through there it was that Tessa Travis and Charles Ddrich became connected. I honestly couldn't find how they came to know each other. But yeah, we already described Synernon a little bit. But yes, it's a cult. They originally began as Tender Loving Care and it was a religious movement founded in nineteen fifty eight by Charles E. Chuck Diedrich Senior in Santa Monica, California. Originally established as a drug rehabilitation program, Cynnon developed into an alternate community centered on group truth telling sessions that became known as the Synonyon Game, a form of attack therapy Cynernon was. By the time it was all public and known, Cinnanon was said to be one of the most dangerous and violin goals America had ever seen. Synnon disbanded in nineteen ninety one after several members were convicted of offenses including financial miss deeds, evidence tamporing, terrorism, and attempted murder. And so it's very possible that the UfW members that were just going to clinic, no, it was a cult. Yeah. The only one who would have been more aware of how controlled Synanon was would be Sasa Chavis, who kept in touch with the leader, Charles Diedrich. He looked up to him. He felt that Chuck was able to take Synonyon to the next level, something he aspired to do with the UfW. A cult was the next level. He admired his cult leadership. Yeah. Yeah. Charles told Cesar that in order for him to do the same, he needed to weed out those who resist change. And he told them that one thing was instrumental to cynern On and to maintain an order in the cult. This never said the word cold, but in Synon maintaining order in syn and On. And that thing was the game. And the game was presented as group therapy. In it, the players all accused one another of their wrongdoings, and it would often be exaggerated. One person was called out and then others would join. The person escaped this yelling being by accusing someone else. Then everyone would gang up on that person. Supposedly it was to correct faults and miscommunications, but it was really another a humiliation ritual. Yeah, and we already mentioned this, but I had it written down here in my notes. But if you know anything about the trouble team industry, then you've probably heard about the Elon school which used the game and their abuse. And yes, they learned it from Synnon. And so Sister Chavis took the board of the UfW to the newest Synonym compound. They had not been debriefed on what was about to happen. Only Charles Ddrich and the Synanon members knew. The board members they had different plans. They Marshall Gantz, who we talked more about him in the five episodes. Any story asn't known, but he was one of the early early members of the UfW. He wanted to talk about focusing on vegetable workers in Salinas and the Imperial Valley. Elisel Medina wanted to talk about the vineyards in Oxnard. Like you got the idea. They thought they were gonna it was gonna be a regular meeting once they all gathered. They were then confused when Sesar Chavis said he wasn't there to talk about elections, contracts, nothing. They weren't there to talk about the union's philosophy. They were going to learn from the Synanon family and they were going to learn the game. He told them that it was time to decide were they a movement or were they a union, because they needed to decide if they would run on volunteer work as a movement or pay wages as a union. But they couldn't afford it. He wanted people to work for free. Yeah, and some people like, I don't know what does revere mean? Like does that like celebrate Yeah, yeah, kind of okay, some people Revere that says Chivis was such a humble man who did all this for free, basically for lowest costs possible, because he wanted to appear like a murder Yeah, because he didn't want to pay anyone. Like it wasn't because it wasn't because he cared. Yeah. And so here he told them like, with what's it going to be or with a movement who has volunteers or are we a union who pays wages and members? Like uh Cohen who was another longtime member of the UfW and Richard Chavis, which is his brother. They were like, we need to pay people, come on, yeah, and says Chavis was completely opposed. He wouldn't hear it. He told him if they didn't get their shit together and become a movement, he would now be part of it. And then he told them he was going to bring the game back to Lapasse and so they needed to learn it and they would watch the Synanon members do the game and then they were invited to join. And so when they were invited to join and they had to like yell at each other, his brother was like what the fuck and walked out. He's like this is no for me. Yeah, yeah, like I can't do this. After the game, Charles spent two hours explaining how he scored everyone during the game and that he would train the twelve UfW members, says Chavez said that everyone who moved into Lapasse after March first, nineteen seventy seven had to participate in the game. None of the members liked it, but no one objected to it except Richard Chavis. After they left the Synnon compound, Chaves wrote a letter to Charles ddrich about how he deeply admired him and what he was doing with Synanon the cult. Charles even proposed opening a Synanon run compound for the US Wow, which it didn't actually happen, but he proposed it the game though that did happen at LAPAs, since Javis handpicked the eleven that would be trained in the game, and he chose purposely who he thought was the most loyal, who he could groom into becoming more loyal and more faithful. Among them was his own son, Paul Chavis, his son in law, his niece, Richard Javis's daughter, one of the rodes Werta's kids, and during the first game at LAPAs, they gained up on Juaquin Murhiya, who is the brother of one of these we'll get into the allegations, but he's the brother of Anna Murhiya. So they gained up on Jaquin Murhia, who had just gotten into college, and this is from the book about when they gained up on him during the game. After this first session, more were trained and there were different games every weekend. It got to the. Point where there was a wait list for twelve people, sorry, a weight list for people, and there were different games happening at the same time from nine to twelve on Sundays, the game started and we got on him, Chavis recounted to the executive board. Boy did he open up. He broke down and cried. Juaquin quit school and went to work full time in the UfW accounting department. It works real nice, Chavis said. Matt Ran cited Joaquin's desicion approvingly as testimony to the power of the thoughts and feelings of their peers when expressed in the game. So they were like, yeah, the game works. But yeah, they coerced Juaquin with he had to quitting college and working for the DFW basically for free. So then board meetings started to get more and more tense, taking the tone of the game on. It wasn't the game, it was a board meeting, but the board meetings became like the game. During every meeting there was a fight between Susan Chavis and Dolores Berda Staraty wanting to quit. Says O. Chavis talked less about farm workers and was more preoccupied with the game who he could put in the game to find out something about them, like that was his preoccupation, not the farm workers. He would also talk about how he didn't trust farm workers that meeting because they only cared at meetings because they only cared about money, which like this was the whole point for them to fight for livable wages. Yeah, for their rights. You're supposed to be like a work union, right, But because people and all of my comments always say, well he cared about the farm workers, he didn't. No, he didn't. No. He I think maybe in the beginning he did, but the power got to him by the end, he didn't. This is evidence of that. He would openly talk about how he didn't trust farm workers, yeah, because they only cared about money, And then he would go in public at all these events and talk about how important farm workers were and how they were the movement. Yeah. He at some point he would in these meetings talk about how he didn't want the movement to be about farm workers anymore, which was the whole point of the UfW right United farm Workers. It's in the name, bitch, Yeah, And he wanted it to be a religious movement, in other words. His cult, his own personal cult. Yeah. And so at first that game was only played like once on Sundays, then they blocked out half of Sunday for the game. Then they added on the game on Wednesday evenings. Hundreds were participating, and Sayesa Javis kept a list of the few dozen who still refused, which yeah, which included Richard Chavis, and says Sa Chavis to tell Richard like, aren't you part of the community. This is part of the community. And Richard was like, I don't want this. And Savis would start naming communities to say like you need to get in line because it is this is a community, and he would name other cults. Oh my god, he's telling her himself. Yeah. Yeah. Jim Drake, another very very long time us W supporter and member from like the beginning, he would tell to such Ibs that it scares him. When he started mentioning all those losers, meaning other cult leaders. Yeah, yeah, including center On. He's like, this scares me. Why are you talking about the Basically that was him, Yeah, and that was a quote from Yeah. So many were worrying about to such Javis. But those two voice concerns were kicked out, and so the most loyal support or as they stayed and this kept on happening, and then it got worse in nineteen seventy seven. In the summer of nineteen seventy seven, says such I was was invited to the Philippines by Ferdinand Marcos. A dictator. Yeah, a straight up dictator. Like there's no way, there's no ifs and or butts about it. This was a dictator, yes, And so the UfW was like always losing Filipino workers. One person had advised him to make this trip and that he would arrange everything, and the board told him, like this was a bad idea. It was already known that the Marcus regime was involved in human rights violations, but says such I was one anyway, and when he returned, says such I was praised the Marcos regime. He was amazed by Marshall law, and he applauded the president. He would love Bugle and Trump. Yeah, when there was rightfully so criticism about this, says her, Chavis doubled down. Of course, he didn't. During a meeting with hundreds of people, he announced that he didn't praise martial law, but he supported the president. But it's like that's the same thing. And then he doubled down more and said that he didn't see any human rights violated of courtured or abuse when he was there. When the attention for the shit he said was too negative, he retreated into LAPAs. That's what Lapasse was for his isolated retreatment place. It got so bad that people who had been supportive of him since the beginning were beginning to resign. And there's like, there's so many names, over half the lawyers, Elisel Medina, even Helen Chaves. His wife was over it. She moved out of Lapass for many reasons, but one of them was Asa said Chavis was a serial cheater. One day she was filling in for his secretary and she found a love letter written to Sasa Chavis by an eighteen year old. Oh my god, he was like almost fifty at this point. Yeah, and when I told you this and he started asn't known we were like she was eighteen, he was forty something, almost fifty. He's the leader of the union. She's a farm worker. The power and balance is already like so obvious. But if she was eighteen, like, who's to say there wasn't any younger survivors of his and look and like how soon that started? Yeah, but yeah, I mean. Yeah, when Helen Chavis saw this letter by an eighteen year old, she had asked the secretary if there had been other letters, but the secretary said nothing because they all kept his secrets. Yeah, this is how this is the environment, the atmosphere, he said. And you'd think that the mass quitting would be a wake up call, but Sasa Chavis's cult like behavior only worsened. He even in this point, like in this time period, took a six day mind control class in la and then announced that he could heal people with his hands. It's like, I don't know how you get to that point. Yeah, and this stuff has all been public, but like you had to look for it. Yeah, the stuff like that we just shared. But now these allegations that are worse have become super public. There's like no hiding how terrible Tessa Chavis is. And before I share the new allegations, I did want to share a story that I saw from someone that Carlon and I both follow. It was a story on their Instagram. She is by Waves on Instagram, but she wrote quote seeing too many people immense specific gleefully sharing Chavist allegations and saying shit like about time. Finally he's canceled, citing Chavis's anti immigration history, how he solved out fellow Filipino farm workers, et cetera. And while that is all true, I'm going to need y'all to stop. I see this every time a man, especially a powerful, rich and well known man, is outed as an abuser, people using survivors as a gotcha to validate their own public grievances with an abuser. Survivors pain and trauma minimized and treated as entertainment and collateral damage. Survivors don't exist to make men feel better about not being like other men. If the first thing out of your mouth when stories of abuse come to light isn't acknology and century and survivors, you're making light of abuse and perpetuating rape culture for GoF. Okay, I'm so glad you shared that, because that was another thing I had didn't say in the beginning of the episode, but I wanted to mention that it's basically just to echo what she said that yeah, too many times. And it's the same issue I have with the Epstein Files, right, like people are centering all the crazy conspiracies they're making up and all the stuff, and not centering the survivors, and like it doesn't matter, Like we're you know, context about Desir travist just so that people know about what else was out there before these allegations came out. But it's not to say, oh, see, we were right, We're vindicated. Like we all grew up learning about Seth Javis and viewing him as a hero, and everyone in their own at different times learned the reality about him, right, So it's not I think a time for us to be like, see, we were right. We even hater since day one, you know, Like that's not the point of this, Like we should be centering survivors and and we should be glad that they came out and they shared their stories, you know what I mean, Like it doesn't matter. It doesn't take away from the movement. If anything, it goes to show that we should not be putting these men on pedestals ever, right, Like the face of the movement should have never been one person. Yeah. And when you let it be one person, then especially a man like that, power gets to their head. They already have the power of machismo and pittriarchy. Imagine, yeah, then imagine me abused as a hero like all that much more power to take advantage of girls and women, right, exactly, exactly, And so The New York Times released their investigation today at the Timber Recording March eighteen, twenty twenty six. They had been working on this since twenty twenty one, damn yeah years. The reporters were Many Fernandez and Sarah Hurtz. They interviewed several women who for the first time told their stories. But yesterday before this came out, so March seventeenth, do the UfW announced that they were canceling to such Chavs Day celebrations due to troubling allegations and like nobody knew what these were, for the story wouldn't come out, Yeah, And so they canceled preemptively these celebrations, and then The New York Times dropped this. So Anna Murhia and Debra Rojas, they're both sixty six now, but they were but when they were teens, they were both abused by Sasa Chavis. He abused them both for years from nineteen seventy two to nineteen seventy seven. Both of them were part of the families who had moved to La Pass to the compound. Both had known so Such Chavis since the since they were children, both had marched alongside him. The reporters also interviewed Doloresuerta, who told them in an interview for the first time ever she made this public that he he sexually assaulted her too, and that resulted in pregnancies. Just a lot. It is, it is she held that secret for sixty years. Wait can we share her statement? I have it in here later. Oh okay, okay, yeah. Anam Murhia and Debra Rojas also held their secrets for years, but this was like all too much for specifically Anna when she learned that a street very close to her home Bakersfield was in the process of being renamed after her abuser, and they both went on to tell The New York Times that if he felt like a shadow, that they couldn't escape. I can only imagine because those of us who had no personal experience with this man but know about how horrible he was, felt like that too. You know what I mean, like, oh my god, not fucking this day again or not, you know, him being celebrated again. Imagine being abused by him and seeing him. Everywhere, Yeah, murals, streets, same as for him, schools, schools, parks, mm hmm. For Anna, the abuse began when she was thirteen, Oh my god, but the grooming had been going on for a while by then, back to when she was eight or nine. Her family moved to the compound Lapasse in nineteen seventy one, and this is when, says her, Chavis started asking Anna for help in random little things, dictating letters or to work the phone at the compound's phone switchboard. This was something that made her proud, like, oh, she's helping in the movement, she's helping him, and with his status among the UfW like, of course, it made her proud. And then so this was around from like eleven to twelve is when she was doing this extra little work here and then having like one on one times with is R. Chavis under the guise of doing this work. But when she was thirteen, he began to her into his office and I believe we mentioned this in the five episodes we did in Estonia as a known but he was obsessed with alternate healing therapies and so this, this alternative medicine was like another tool in his fuming because he would have Anna laid down either on his desk or the yoga mat, and then began to show her different pressure points. And then this escalated. It's like any excuse to well, it'screw me yeah, yeah, yeah, and like trigger content warning for a little bit like of the I'm not going into details details, but this is disturbing, so content warning for rape. But the first time that this went from showing her a little pressure points, like little touching here and there. The first time it escalated, he had called her into that same office that she had been in many different occasions, but this time when he her onto the yoga mat, he kissed her and then he pulled her pants down. After he was done, he told her not to tell anyone because everyone else would get jealous. And this went out for years, he took her on tour with him to different marches and events. There's one really famous picture from the one thousand Mile March that happened in the summer of nineteen seventy five. In this picture, Anna is marching nextus as her Javis. By this point she was fifteen, and it was after this march that she had walked into the kitchen and saw him kissing another woman, and she felt betrayed. She was like actively being abused by him, and enter the guise of she was the only one, which like teens, like no one has when there's someone is being abused. They don't have the language to understand what's happening, you know, much less a teenager who probably has doesn't have any experience in a relationship. And this is not a relationship, mind, dude, This is like abuse. But this is the only example of something like that she had, so of course she feels that way. Yeah, yeah, And so after this moment he sought her out less and less until he stopped completely. And about this, she told The New York Times quote, I felt very alone. I had zero support end quote. She left LAPAs at nineteen and fell into heroin addiction. She returned to Lapaz, hoping that such Avis could help her, but when she returned, he called her into the office in a room full of men and told her she was bringing drugs into the community and that she needed to leave. And like, this is a he could have told her by herself, no, no, because he needed to humiliate her as well. Exactly, this is how the purgings and the kicking people out. It was always done this way. Yeah. When a family member asked her what happened, she told family member, quote, he doesn't need me anymore. I'm grown up. He told me to get out. End quote. So sad. Yeah. For years she felt like she would have been blamed for her abuse, and she told no one, though she did tell a few family members in the nineteen eighties, like three or four different family members from what I read in the New York Times article, but they couldn't get them to like talk more about this. The other person she did confide in who she knew she could trust was de Drocas. Debra's family moved to La pass in nineteen seventy two when she was twelve, and in that same year, says her job as asked her into his office locked the door, asked her about school and books, and when she was admiring his bookshelves, he touched her for the first time. She was shocked and confused. That was their first encounter, but like Anna, it went on for years. He would call her house talk about Union stuff with her dad and then he would ask her dad to put her on the phone and he then invited her also to the one thousand mile March. At this point she was fifteen. Her parents were skeptical about letting her go, but said such Jabas insisted that Deborah would be safe, and of course he was this revered leader among them, Like they were going. To trust him. Yeah. He called and called and called as telling them to let her go to the march. And because of that culture he had created within the uf W, because of his status within the uf W, her parents just wanted to be on his good side. They thought he was a good person. Yeah, and they said yes, they loved sasuch Javis. They admired such Javis. Everyone did. So they believed that their daughter would be safe. So she went. And during that march in August, he like randomly told her, you're going home for a week, and she was like sad and confused. She thought she was in trouble, and when she was waiting at the bus stop to go back home for a week, he showed up in a car with one of his bodyguards to pick her up, and they drove to a motel on Highway ninety nine, and in this motel was the first time he raped her. Hello, Hello, this is Christina from the future. There's one thing I forgot to mention here, but when this happened, he had a gun on him that she saw him place on the dresser before the assault, and that just adds another level of coercion that that was already there, right, and another thing to fear when I just wanted to make sure that everyone had that context and to not leave it out as well. Okay, back to the episode. Oh my god, So he made her feel like he was like abandoning her and making her go home, then picked her up in the state of emotional I don't know, yeah, despair, and then took advantage of her. Yeah, And he was with one of his bodyguards when he picked her up, So that's at least one other person that knew that knew exactly after this though, after this moment and after the march was over, he grew more and more distant and told her. Deborah told Debra that he needed to go back to his wife, and like Anna, Deborah told a very few select family members about what happened to her, but not until the nineteen nineties. Another daughter of a union member also came forward, Esmerada Lopez, and this is years after Debra and Anna's. Abuse had taken place. At LAPAs eighty eight, Esmeerda was selected to go on and out of state speaking tour in Michigan with Sasa Chabas. After the event, they drove to his camper that was attached to a pickup truck and there they chatted and talked about the event. They were sitting on the bed in the camper. When they were talking, while sitting on the bed, he pointed to a street sign that was named after him outside and told Esmerada that if she slept with him, something could be named after her. Oh my god, she was nineteen and he was sixty one. Oh my god. She was shaken and she rebuffed him, and after that he didn't say anything, and she called her mom right away and told her that she needed to come home. When her mom asked what happened. She told her mom quote says Sar Chabas. Is just a man. End quote, Oh my god, the chils I just got because that's literally that's how I feel about this whole thing. Yeah. Yeah, Her mom, Cynthia Bell, completely understood when her daughter said, Sesar Javis is just a man. Her mom is seventy five now, and she recalls sexual advances from Cesar Javis when she was in her early twenties in the nineteen seventies. Oh my god. They were dancing at some event, like a union event, and he told her quote, I see you sometimes like one of my daughters, but then I get these other feelings. End quote. And ten months after Esmeralda rebuffed him, she was fired from her job at the Union health care clinic. And then today also so the New York Times mentioned Dolores Wortha saying that she was also assaulted. And there's like a little bit of details in the New York Times article along with the other three accounts. But then do Lotus Werta released her own statement, which we will read. I am nearly ninety six years old and for the last sixty years have kept a secret because I believe that exposing the truth would hurt the farm worker movement. I have spent my entire life fighting for I have encouraged people to always use their voice. Following the New York Times multi year investigation into sexual misconduct by Soasar Chavis, I can no longer stay silent and must share my own experiences. As a young mother in the nineteen sixties, I experienced two separate sexual encounters with Sessad. The first time, I was manipulated and pressured into having sex with him, and I didn't feel I could say no because he was someone I admired, my boss and the leader of the movement. I had already devoted years of my life too. The second time, I was forced against my will and in an environment where I felt trapped. I had experienced abuse and sexual violence before, and I convinced myself these were incidents that I had to endure alone and in secret. Both sexual encounters we was Sasad le to pregnancies. I chose to keep my pregnancies secret, and after the children were born, I arranged for them to be raised by other families that could give them stable lives. Over the years, I have been fortunate to develop a deep relationship with these children, who are now close to my other children, their siblings. But even then, no one knew the truth, the full truth about how they were conceived until just a few weeks ago. I carried the secret for as long as I did because building the movement and securing farm worker rights was my life's work. The formation of a union was the only vehicle to accomplish and secure those rights, and I wasn't going to let Sessat or anyone else get in the way. I channeled everything into advocating on behalf of millions of farm workers and others who were suffering and deserved equal rights. I have never identified myself as a victim, but I now understand that I am a survivor of violence, of sexual abuse, of domineering men who saw me and other women as proper or things to control. I am telling my story because The New York Times has indicated that I was not the only one. There were others. Women are coming forward sharing that they were sexually abused and assaulted by Sasad when they were girls and teenagers. The knowledge that he hurt young girls sickens me. My heart aches for everyone who suffered alone and in silence for years. There are no words strong enough to condemn those deplorable actions that he did. Says, thus actions do not reflect the values of our community and our movement. The farm worker movement has always been bigger and far more important than any one individual. Says that's actions do not diminish the permanent improvement to achieve for farm workers with the help of thousands of people. We must continue to engage and support our community, which needs advocacy and activism now more than ever. I will continue my commitments to workers, as well as my commitment to women's rights, to make sure we have a voice and that our communities are treated with dignity and given the equity that they have so long been denied. I have kept the secret long enough. My silence ends here. If you are a survivor, or if you have been impacted by any type of flectional violence, please visit the lottesport the Foundation website, where you will find a list. Of resources for support. And that was her statement. I need a moment to collect myself. Yes, earlier, earlier, when I read her statement, it made me toirit, but like it didn't make me cry, but I feel like it's like triggering so much for me right now, because I mean, how many women and girls and children have to be abused by men and remained silent for years and years and years, And how many women out to endure workplace sexual harassment and violence and assault? And how many women do we know personally that are survivors of abuse as children or as women by men? Because it's always a fucking man, and yet no man ever stand up for women, you know what I mean? Right? And like, although I didn't, I didn't want to talk about a man during women's history months, this is part of it because the culture of patriarchy, this patriarchal culture, yeah, has given way to all of this. It's the reason he was able to get away with us for so long. Yeah, And the reason why the women didn't feel like they could say anything, because what is the first move to blame the women themselves? And people are doing it right now, Like we have like a one year old video just talking about the immigration stuff, like s Se Travis and I posted that today on Instagram and immediately someone mentioned, like why did we that say? Signing it for so long? She was how much does she know? And she's not saying she probably knew about this and she was just protecting him, and it's like she was assaulted. What are you talking about. Yeah, she's like a survivor herself of this, and it's always put on the women's shoulders. It's the same thing people are saying about the epsin survivors, the same thing they said about our killing survivors. Literally everyone, it's like, oh, why didn't they say say something sooner? They let other women be abused? No, our culture they were scared or rape culture enables this. Yeah, because but also I feel like on top of like already this country's rape culture, Mexico's machismo culture, like putting those those are huge factors. But then you have to keep in mind the cult environment that the UfW was being ran in, Like that's why we included all the context that we did. They had this like unhealthy, unhealthy need to fight for the cause. This is something that already had in her, but they took advantage of that. They took advantage of that completely says their child has took advantage of that, and he fostered a cult environment. Like that's like straight up, so of course people were afraid, but also men are going to enable men. His big supporters were men. His bodyguard knew when he dropped him off or when they picked up one of the survivors writing, people knew, and people defended him, just like it happens when you know you, like a family member comes forward and then you're like another family member is like, oh, so and so is coming over. Don't wear any skirts? Like yeah, or if. She was really afraid of him, if he was really hurting her, then why would she go and you know, be playful with him or sitting near him or you know what I mean? Like always it's always something yeah, and it's just yeah, it's infreu eating. And this takes into everything we've been saying about feminism and how I don't know it needs to be accepted practiced. Like I think it needs to be practiced. Yeah. More people need to be feminists and realize that this is not about one man, right, This is about a culture that enables men like this to abuse women and children. Yeah, and untold we see women and children as deserving of humanity, yeah, right, because they're viewed as property. And that is one reason why people like this find it so acceptable and easil easy to abuse women and children because they're viewed as property and not as full human beings like men are you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly exactly and yeah, oh actually no A couple more things. When these allegations have were brought to light, and like obviously people flooded to social media. People have been making posts like their discourse has begun, right, like we sat at the top of this episode or somewhere in the middle like that whatever discourse that's gonna happen needs to center like the survivors and their voices, which is not a lot of like it's what I'm seeing is the opposite. Yeah, again blaming calling this a conspiracy, saying that, oh right, when farm workers are trying to fight against uh, their rights being taken away, this comes out to like devalue but their work or their union. But it's like sins such Javis was one man. He is not the whole union. Yeah, regardless of whatever Chavis has I mean, regardless of everything so such Javis has done. This doesn't take away from that the fact that farm workers need to be paid like a again, he never did that alone, age, No, he never did that alone. He never did. So that's like another thing I'm seeing that it's a conspiracy. Other people are saying it's a conspiracy to take away from the Epstein files, or like why now, why there are the Times released this now They've been working on this herve for years years. Yeah, and the other stuff has been known, and there's there's never a wrong time for survivors of sexual abuse to disclose their abuse. Yeah, and the the right time is when they say it like there's yeah, no other it's underbuds about it exactly exactly. And so that's like another thing that I'm seeing that's really off putting. Not everything revolves around the United States and the Epstein files. Yeah. Plus, sorry to say it just reminds me so back when I was training to work at the net work to volunteer at organization that helps. Now they're not so women focused, they're like more about all survivors of sexual abuse and interpersonal violence. But back then they were like a woman's like sheltered type place and they helped survivors of rape. And so I was training and one of the things I learned about is the rampant sexual harassment and abuse that women migrant workers in the field's face and all and this is it. This is like the same thing that we're talking about now, Like this has been going on forever, right back then when sees their childs was doing it and the people under him and every other supervisor out there know what they call them, but you know what I mean, and every other like man working next to their fellow peers of women coworkers abusing them. And most of these women were undocumented and they were afraid to report. Yeah, so it's like just one more. Vulnerable you know, position that they're in, that another reason that they don't report, Yes, And yeah, I think that's like that's a good stopping point for this episode. But yeah, like not everything is a distraction for something else. We can hold many truths at the same time. We can hold information and uphold survive right and believe them, Yeah, and believe them, and yeah, let's stop like having this culture where victims and survivors of sexual abuse can't come forward because the reality is that nobody believes them. They are blamed. And if we didn't have this culture, these women would have shared their truths longer ago. Yep, Like I can't even imagine being ninety six. And finally, you know, sharing your truth about that, like that's wild, right right. It's infuriating, it really is. And that's why I was like crying, like it's here's the anger and I'm about to cry again. It just takes me back, okay, like years ago, and well, well let's end in and I'll tell you. Okay, yeah, I don't know how to like end this. Just fuck this rape culture, Fuck the patriarchy, believe survivors, Thank you, yes. Goodbye, goodbye. Spooktaels is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen, and with the help of Don Shout Out Don. If you aren't joining the podcast considerably going to say five star review, we would really appreciate it. 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